J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread IV (Closed to posting)

[tphuang]

I'd say it could not be the final version of J20's radar.

Now I kinda believe the first batch of J10B is using PESA but AESA. If the article is true, there's no way PLA spent tons of money to develop it's first AESA radar for j10 variants but not the most important j20 project.

That makes no sense at all. Once you are capable of developing and manufacturing AESA radar, you want to start using them.

You are very likely wrong. You should read the link of #4869.

I drew this conclusion not based on that antenna picture but assuming what the above link says is true, which I don't doubt it right now.

Except it said
"主持完成了我国第一部机载有源相控阵火控雷达的研制与试飞，雷达系统设计水平国内领先，与世界上最先进的装备美国F-22飞机的AN/APG-77雷达相当，为我国新一代战斗机火控雷达的研制奠定了坚实的技术基础。"
The second part said this radar made for the technology basis for developing fire control radar on China's new generation fighter jet. So this first AESA radar is for another fighter jet.

You test out these new technologies on J-10 series first and then you put them on J-20. Considering they got award for this in 2009 and it completed design and test flights by then + J-20 haven't even flew yet (let alone flying with radar), it's pretty clear the first aircraft with AESA radar is not J-20.

At least it was not purposely developed for J10B since the article says this radar projects started in the middle 90s and lasted around 15 years and I don't believe at that time they already started to plan the j10 variants considering j10's maiden flight was in 1998.

J10 variants' upgraded radar of course will be one consequence of the reported AESA, but PROBABLY wont be equipped in the first batch. And that's why there is J10C which looks almost exact the same in appearance.

Even if they don't know what future variants of J-10 will look like, they will still know that some kind of upgrade to J-10 will happen. That's pretty obvious, right? If they are going to upgrade radar on J-10, then the next step is AESA radar, so they'd have to at least start researching on it. You have to research into these things before you can develop them.

Now, considering that you agree that J-10 series will be using AESA radar soon and it will be produced before J-20, then it's clear J-10 series will be the first fighter jets to get AESA radar. Which corroborates with the article.

 

[davidwangqi]

Except it said
"主持完成了我国第一部机载有源相控阵火控雷达的研制与试飞，雷达系统设计水平国内领先，与世界上最先进的装备美国F-22飞机的AN/APG-77雷达相当，为我国新一代战斗机火控雷达的研制奠定了坚实的技术基础。"
The second part said this radar made for the technology basis for developing fire control radar on China's new generation fighter jet. So this first AESA radar is for another fighter jet.

You test out these new technologies on J-10 series first and then you put them on J-20. Considering they got award for this in 2009 and it completed design and test flights by then + J-20 haven't even flew yet (let alone flying with radar), it's pretty clear the first aircraft with AESA radar is not J-20.

Maybe we understand this sentence differently. The comparison is made with APG77 which obviously larger than J10B's radar in size.

Now, considering that you agree that J-10 series will be using AESA radar soon and it will be produced before J-20, then it's clear J-10 series will be the first fighter jets to get AESA radar. Which corroborates with the article.

What I agreed is actually that J-10C(201) has AESA installed and is still under test. You can't tell which one will be sooner. I personally feel J20 will enter service sooner than J10C even though this doesn't matter.

 

[latenlazy]

Maybe we understand this sentence differently. The comparison is made with APG77 which obviously larger than J10B's radar in size.

The sentence mentions nothing about performance. It just makes a general statement of being "comparable", which could range from "it's the same kind of radar" to "it's got the same level of technology" to "it has the same performance". None of which indicate that the radar was for the J-20 by the way.

What I agreed is actually that J-10C(201) has AESA installed and is still under test.

Here's why you should treat the J-10C rumour with a grain of salt. Based on the link we're discussing the AESA radar was completed in 2009. We get a picture of the J-10B's radar in 2011, with leakers claiming it's an AESA, along with some research documents that are supposed to be for the same model we get pictures of. Completed in 2009 with testing in 2011 sounds pretty reasonable. In 2014 we suddenly have rumour about a J-10C comes out of nowhere, based on a prototype that looks exactly like the J-10B except it's claimed to be the J-10C. The rationale is that the J-10B has a PESA, based on the presumption that the radar we saw in 2011 can't be an AESA because it doesn't look like other AESAs, so another variant with the AESA must be forthcoming. So yeah, to me this J-10C stuff is all very suspicious.

Fanboys on Chinese BBS have rationalized themselves into believing dubious things on the basis that they things don't pass their eye or belief test multiple times before, ranging from "stealthy" J-20 nozzles, J-20s with taihangs, J-11Ds etc etc. I would not be surprised if this J-10C rumour is just that.

 

[lllchairmanlll]

The recent post (# 4864) is a source of confusion because the content supposedly linked it to J-20 but as I understand subsequent replies from others (e.g. post #4870) suggest it is connected to J-10B and not the former.

How do you then make that leap of speculation that J-20 is equipped with that model and not something else?

"AESA that is based on that model" ready carefully before commenting

 

[lllchairmanlll]

If you can read Chinese, here is something you should not miss. A general history of Chinese fighter jet AESA.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

MOD COMMENTS: IllciamanIll, SD forum has rules about posting English translations. Read those rules. You need to include an English translation for the link or not post it.

 

[lllchairmanlll]

据统计，美军F-22战机使用的APG-77雷达共有1956个，而歼-20战机的AESA雷达为1856个，两者大致相当。So AESA on F22 has 1956 TR units VS. J20 with 1856 units? Does it sound familiar?

 

[latenlazy]

据统计，美军F-22战机使用的APG-77雷达共有1956个，而歼-20战机的AESA雷达为1856个，两者大致相当。So AESA on F22 has 1956 TR units VS. J20 with 1856 units? Does it sound familiar?

I feel like they may have parsed the original article imprecisely...

Also wondering where they got that count. Was that in the original article? (I didn't read the entire thing)

 

[tphuang]

If you can read Chinese, here is something you should not miss. A general history of Chinese fighter jet AESA.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

so this one looks like one of those bad sources (based on looking through about 4 slides) where it uses Kanwa analysis in one of its slide and the so called Western source/spy in another one. And then making further analysis based on the picture of J-10B radar with IFF.

 

[lllchairmanlll]

so this one looks like one of those bad sources (based on looking through about 4 slides) where it uses Kanwa analysis in one of its slide and the so called Western source/spy in another one. And then making further analysis based on the picture of J-10B radar with IFF.

could be. is there any new reliable source nowadays?

But still, if you can read Chinese and look carefully enough, you should find it suggests that Kanwa analysis is incorrect that "China is not capable of developing AESA for fighter jet".

MOD COMMENT: illchairmanill, no need to post multiple times to answer the same question twice right after each other. Include it in the initial post. They were posted 3 minutes apart.

 

[Brumby]

"AESA that is based on that model" ready carefully before commenting

Sorry. You need to say it in English.