J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread IV (Closed to posting)

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Hyperwarp

Hyperwarp

Captain
TerraN_EmpirE said:
The USAF has and operates foreign radar systems as part of its R&D assets and labs. When raptor was designed they ran models of her though testing using those same systems. Same for F35 and every other stealth assets in the inventory. Those who question the level of the raptors stealth I remind you that both the J20 J21 and Russian Pak FA use almost identical architectural to achieve there stealth. I also remind you that Lockheed martin invented stealth as we know it today, stealth however is not perfect. You need the right tactics. Point a radar at the bottom or top of any stealth and its visible. Stealth is optimized for head to head side to side sweeps. An we have yet to develop true counter IR and visual stealth. The science is of course always changing. New coatings defended counter defended are always on the work.
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Germans developed MBB Lampyridae independently from Have blue/Senior Trend. MBB unveiled it to the US only in 1987 and the project was suddenly closed for "unspecified" reasons. Before that, far back as WWII there was the Horten Ho 229. It had had carbon-impregnated plywood and concealed exhaust like the B-2!

Not to mention Northrop took a different path from Lockheed with Tacit Blue. You can see the Northrop lineage in Tatic Blue/B-2/YF-23 compared to Have Blue/F-117/YF-22.

The PAK-FA T-50 goes down the YF-23 route and not so much the YF-22 route.
 
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latenlazy

Brigadier
Skywatcher said:
Frankly, all we have is a defense contractor claim that the F-22A has a RCS of 0.1m2. Which, if actually applicable to combat situations, would mean that the USAF has wasted billions of dollars on a fighter that is about as stealthy as the Eurofighter Typhoon.

Now, a comparable example would be this. Lockheed Martin could claim that they can take out the targeting system and communications of the AShBM using the electronic warfare suite of the AEGIS system because of the digital architecture of Chinese C41 system.

Of course, in that case, LM would have to definitively know all about the Chinese C41SR system's operations, a system which just like the F-22, is undergoing continual upgrades and modifications.

Does that sound rational?
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Again, you act as if the RCS of an airplane is one single number, when it really isn't. Because it's a range of numbers, you wouldn't be lying if you chose the best reflection angle, just as much as you wouldn't be lying if you chose the worst. I wouldn't obsess too much over either claims.
 
TerraN_EmpirE

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Hyperwarp said:
Germans developed MBB Lampyridae independently from Have blue/Senior Trend. MBB unveiled it to the US only in 1987 and the project was suddenly closed for "unspecified" reasons. Before that, far back as WWII there was the Horten Ho 229. It had had carbon-impregnated plywood and concealed exhaust like the B-2!

Not to mention Northrop took a different path from Lockheed with Tacit Blue. You can see the Northrop lineage in Tatic Blue/B-2/YF-23 compared to Have Blue/F-117/YF-22.

The PAK-FA T-50 goes down the YF-23 route and not so much the YF-22 route.
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Nothing ever came of MBB for what ever reason its a dead end. Although it would have been great if Europe had developed it into a stealthy fighter that never happened. Same for
the Horton line and the Northrop YB flying wing line of stealth. They were aborted too otherwise the we would've likely had stealth bombers and fighters dueling over Vietnam. No I said as we know it today that line started at the A12 Oxcart and then moved up with the SR71 developed as the Have blue which set the use of CAD radar deflection. This was then improved on in the Northrop B2 and then perfected in the (yes Northrop) Tasset blue which gives its form of stealth to both the raptor and black widow. That stealth was then copied and evaluated by both the Russians and Chinese to gain access to the basis of there own.
 
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Inst

Captain
WS-10A IS reverse engineered, just not from the AL-31FN as commonly believed. It's a derivative of the CFM-56 used both on commercial aircraft and in a militarized version on the F-16.
 
rhino123

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
Inst said:
WS-10A IS reverse engineered, just not from the AL-31FN as commonly believed. It's a derivative of the CFM-56 used both on commercial aircraft and in a militarized version on the F-16.
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You have links and references for your claim that the engine is reverse engineered? For your information, working on the same concept as another engine doesn't warrant it as a reverse engineered product... as was sharing similar technology.

The reason I stated that was that, you can be basing your technology on another more matured technology, but that doesn't mean you are reverse engineered that said technology.
 
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rhino123

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
Inst said:
It's a derivative of the WS-10 which is a remilitarization of the CFM56 engine.

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Like I say before... WS-10A's core is based on a proven technology, that does not make it a copy or reverse engineered product.

There are heaps of products out in the market (be it Western, Chinese, Indians or Russian) that are based on other products and technology. If all these are considered reverse engineered, then there will be heaps of reverse engineered system around. And basically all steam turbines are reverse engineered product that started with the first steam engine. While all wheels are reverse engineered from eons ago first wheel used by the cave man.

Plus you chose to use only one source. I have multiple Chinese source that mentioned that WS-10A's core is a mixture of both CFM56 engine core and AL-31 engine core. Which doesn't actually make it a reverse engineered product, right?

Also your source is mixing the WS-10 and WS-10A engine... both of which had different core... the WS-10A core as mentioned by many many Chinese website that are a mix of technologies used in CFM-56 and AL-31.


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etc, etc
 
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hardware

Banned Idiot
11_16779386_a2e0562fa323e51.jpg11_16779386_b588414c8a4e887.jpg
the original article appear in 2010,according to the article, Chinese AESA designer emulate US raytheon T/R MMIC 2 tiers "packaging" (see australia airpower),this allow max. T/R MMIC density.
 
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