J-18 ???

Franticfrank said:

This doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Look at the stealthy Blackhawks used by the United States. Nobody had heard of these aircraft until the OBL raid. If that first aircraft didn't crash, leaving its tail section on the wrong side of the wall, we'd all be none the wiser. We still don't know what that looks like or how many aircraft are in service.

However, if the Chinese did successfully produce a STOVL aircraft rivalling the F-35, it would be such an impressive feat of engineering that I'm sure it would be shown off. Look at how difficult the Yak-141 proved for the Russians and the F-35 is proving for the US and its partners.

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Well to be frank, Frank (no pun intended) I think the stealth blackhawks you see in the OBL raid is a one off designed created strictly for the raid and in no way indicative of mainstream production. Some very exotic aircraft have been created in the past before for very high profile type missions that most of us will never even hear or know off.

Take for example the JATO/STO Herc designed and created stricly for the Iranian hostage rescue.. unfortunately it never went anywhere because the thing crashed right before the suposed reasue mission.

Franticfrank said:

This doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Look at the stealthy Blackhawks used by the United States. Nobody had heard of these aircraft until the OBL raid. If that first aircraft didn't crash, leaving its tail section on the wrong side of the wall, we'd all be none the wiser. We still don't know what that looks like or how many aircraft are in service.

However, if the Chinese did successfully produce a STOVL aircraft rivalling the F-35, it would be such an impressive feat of engineering that I'm sure it would be shown off. Look at how difficult the Yak-141 proved for the Russians and the F-35 is proving for the US and its partners.

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OBL raid Blackhawk was revealed through a section of the broken tail, the so called J18 was fabricated by fans using a picture of a J20 model. Chinese STOVL project occurred once already in the 70s and there have been no indication whatsoever that it has been resurrected.

While I have no doubt that the Chinese could produce a engine or powerplant for that specific purpose (VTOL/ STOL), I do not see it now. Main reason is that SAC was busy with multiple projects at the present moment - J-11B, J-31, J-15 and J-16, although getting more budget at present, there are still limits and restriction to the number of staff available and the technology availability and also $$$.

Plus China at present moment are also busy with multiple engines and powerplants development and/or manufacturing, I seriously don't think that the J-18 would be of too high a priority. Plus look at who leaked out the J-18 project - the Japanese and the British and that seemed to say alot wouldn't it?

kwaigonegin said:

Well to be frank, Frank (no pun intended) I think the stealth blackhawks you see in the OBL raid is a one off designed created strictly for the raid and in no way indicative of mainstream production. Some very exotic aircraft have been created in the past before for very high profile type missions that most of us will never even hear or know off.

Take for example the JATO/STO Herc designed and created stricly for the Iranian hostage rescue.. unfortunately it never went anywhere because the thing crashed right before the suposed reasue mission.

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I totally agree with your points, and that Hercules is a great example. Still, I'd consider the stealthy Blackhawk a much more complex piece of machinery. The 160th are well known for improvisation and 'pimping' their helicopters but this is surely a step further - the amount of technology included must have taken time to design and test. Look at the way the US kept the F117 secret, and that was an aircraft in mainstream production. Either way, we don't know. And the arrival of the Chinooks during the raid might have rendered the advanced Blackhawks redundant anyway.

Nobody expects a secret operational Chinese VSTOL fighter but given the emergence of the J-20 and J-31, I wouldn't be surprised at anything at the moment.

I wouldn't be surprised they have instead an ongoing VSTOL project which was initiated purely for technology demonstration and research purposes.
The knowledge gained from this kind of research could come in handy and save times if they finally decide to move on to building operational VSTOL aircraft.

Now the question is has this already come to pass and they've already move on to the real business?

Quickie said:

I wouldn't be surprised they have instead an ongoing VSTOL project which was initiated purely for technology demonstration and research purposes.
The knowledge gained from this kind of research could come in handy and save times if they finally decide to move on to building operational VSTOL aircraft.

Now the question is has this already come to pass and they've already move on to the real business?

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Not without much better engines, that's for sure.
And I think the time of V/STOL and STOVL jet aircraft has passed already.

delft said:

And I think the time of V/STOL and STOVL jet aircraft has passed already.

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How do you figure? The way I see it, as long as nations that aren't superpowers want to operate high-performance jet aircraft off of carriers, I see this technology continuing.

On the possiblity of a "black" aircraft coming from China, I don't think it's that likely. The J-20 and J-21 were rumored to exist for months and years before the Chinese flew them. I have no doubt China could have kept them secret if they wanted to (just build an Area 51 clone in the desert! lol), but instead there were many very intriguing "leaks" of photos and so on. And it appears they test fly one aircraft out of a city of fourteen million... very different from the Groom Lake and Tonopah installations hundreds of miles from any kind of civilization. The Chinese like to show off their new tech.

Plus, what reason does China have to develop such a thing? They will be operating carriers larger than the French Charles De Gaulle, and it seems the Sino-built carriers currently in production have catapults. I can't find any reason why China would develop a VTOL fighter.

And then, the original reports of this "J-18" claimed it was based off of a Flanker. A Flanker modified for VTOL. Not that believable.

Quickie said:

I wouldn't be surprised they have instead an ongoing VSTOL project which was initiated purely for technology demonstration and research purposes.
The knowledge gained from this kind of research could come in handy and save times if they finally decide to move on to building operational VSTOL aircraft.

Now the question is has this already come to pass and they've already move on to the real business?

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What makes You so sure that there ever was a VSTOL project "initiated purely for technology demonstration and research purposes" ??

IMO the Chinese aircraft design institutes are well overbusy with so many other projects that a VSTOL project is alone from the question of powerplant simply out of reach at the moment. IMO this VSTOL project is simply a HOAX, a FAKE and not real.

Deino

Chinese Vtol fighter? Perhaps they kicked around the office i am not sure they are up too in terms of Engines. Don't get me Wrong China has come a long way but Vtol fighter are power heavy there have only been three designs that have reached any level of production the Harrier being the most successful the F35 entering early phase now and the Russian Yak 38. others have tried but the problems of speed, price and endurance have killed them off.

I think there was may even be a J18 but I don't think it's a Vtol platform. The Chinese have probably flirted with the Idea and the Russians may have even offered YAK 141 but they seem too have no real need at this point. better too put there energy's on STOBAR craft.

Now off topic.
the Stealthhawk was not built just too get OBL there is recent Info that seems too lay a time line for it Beginning in the early Clinton years every indication is that they came on line in 2000 and that particular unit was one of a handful of more or less concept demonstrators Now supposedly there is a second generation Production version. that is based on the Book Seal Target Geronimo

FirstImpulse said:

How do you figure? The way I see it, as long as nations that aren't superpowers want to operate high-performance jet aircraft off of carriers, I see this technology continuing.

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Any power that is not the US will not want to build carriers of 100k. They are just too expensive. The old saw is that it is better to build the STOL performance into the ship rather than the aircraft. F-35B is a perfect illustration. But then you don't want to loose as much deck real estate to the take off area. Now what?
Assuming, quite reasonably, that the acceleration of the aircraft will be the same, but that an aircraft leaving a ski ramp needs 2/3 the speed of one leaving a flat deck ( just an example , but in the right ball park ), than the length of the ramp and of the cat built into it is halve of the 103' of the cats of the super carriers, 25 rather than 50 meters. On a carrier with a length of 283 meters, like Vikramaditya, that is a significant saving and provide you with aircraft with a lower cost and a superior performance compared with STOVL or V/STOL ones.

CORRECTION: I was apparently nearly asleep when I calculated those lengths. 103' is 32 meters, so the halve of it is 16 meters. Still a worthwhile saving in flight deck real estate.