J-15 carrier fighter thread

[Wrought]

For the next 10+ years, the USN (even with mixed airwings) will easily be able to deploy far more stealth fighters than the Chinese Navy.

So in order to compete for blue-water air superiority , the Chinese Navy (with fewer carriers) will need all the stealth aircraft it can field.

No, in order to compete for air superiority PLAN will rely on land-based cover from PLAAF. Whether that's directly from the mainland, from expeditionary island bases, with daisy-chains of tankers, or whatever other solution. Navies do not exist in a vacuum.

Both PLAN and PLAAF will in turn rely on mixed fleets instead of foolishly going for 100% stealth.

 

[Tomboy]

If they ever do intend to replace Al-31Fs with WS-10s, the Al-31F equipped J-15Ts will probably be sent to land based units for training and reserve replacing the original J-15s there which will probably be mothballed or even dismantled. PLAAF will never take these leftovers anyhow.

 

[Gloire_bb]

So in order to compete for blue-water air superiority , the Chinese Navy (with fewer carriers) will need all the stealth aircraft it can field.

Air superiority over sea isn't captured by going after carrier aircraft, it's captured by going after aircraft carriers(or defending them).
This ironically makes non-stealth aircraft (carriers of large missiles, arm and ew on one side, interceptors on the other) more important for air superiority over sea.
Not in absolute terms, but for now at least.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Personally I find the engine debate hilarious. WS-21 is a domestic engine and obviously they are comfortable putting it on J-35 for carrier operations. To think that China doesn’t have the ability to make turbofans with enough throttle time responsiveness, corrosion resistance and what not for carrier operations is dumb in my opinion.

 

[sunnymaxi]

Personally I find the engine debate hilarious. WS-21 is a domestic engine and obviously they are comfortable putting it on J-35 for carrier operations. To think that China doesn’t have the ability to make turbofans with enough throttle time responsiveness, corrosion resistance and what not for carrier operations is dumb in my opinion.

and its not even the best Engine in this category. LOL

i have mentioned this many times. PLAN have no issue using WS-21 in sea environment. Guancha Trios explicitly said, this is purely PLAN decision to go with AL-31 in context with logistics and cost. otherwise domestic alternative does available.

WS-10H is ready engine since 2023.

 

[bsdnf]

This is a very difficult decision to make financially. When you still have dozens or hundreds of AL-31F in your inventory that are still within their service life, how many people has the authority to make the decision to OK just throw them away?

This is not the PLA's style.

 

[AndrewS]

No, in order to compete for air superiority PLAN will rely on land-based cover from PLAAF. Whether that's directly from the mainland, from expeditionary island bases, with daisy-chains of tankers, or whatever other solution. Navies do not exist in a vacuum.

Both PLAN and PLAAF will in turn rely on mixed fleets instead of foolishly going for 100% stealth.

The First Island Chain will be pretty secure from 2030 onwards, given 1000+ stealth fighters.

The next step is the Second Island Chain, but this is 3000km away. This is beyond the practical reach of land based fighters, given the sortie durations and airborne refuelling requirements. The exception here is the J-36, which is designed for operations to the Second Island Chain. But there won't be significant numbers of J-36 for another 10 years.

So Chinese fighter presence to the Second Island Chain will have to be primarily from a limited number of aircraft carriers.

---

I agree that the Chinese Air Force should operate a mixed fighter fleet, given that they have as many runways as they want. But that doesn't apply to the Chinese Navy in the coming years.

Eventually, if the Chinese Navy has enough aircraft carriers, then they could go back to a mixed fleet.

 

[lcloo]

PLAN AF or PLAAF do not have the practice of terminating any old but still useful aircraft prematurely. The not so recent transfer of PLANAF aircraft to PLAAF was due to changes in doctrine and changes in roles of certain aircraft in PLAAF and PLANAF. rather than to make room for new aircraft.

J15 will continue to serve PLANAF until their airframe lives run out. Whether they will switch to domestic WS-10 will depend on logistic and operational costs and available inventory of spare engines, and also political goodwill towards Russia. J15 will not be retired just because they are running on engines that were designed decades ago.

J6, J7, J8 and JH7 are/were kept in service as long as their airframes still has lives left. There is no need to doubt or impose personal feeling or personal wishes as if PLANAF will adopt them.

J15 will just pass on naturally just like other older fighter jets before them.

 

[Wrought]

The First Island Chain will be pretty secure from 2030 onwards, given 1000+ stealth fighters.

The next step is the Second Island Chain, but this is 3000km away. This is beyond the practical reach of land based fighters, given the sortie durations and airborne refuelling requirements. The exception here is the J-36, which is designed for operations to the Second Island Chain. But there won't be significant numbers of J-36 for another 10 years.

So Chinese fighter presence to the Second Island Chain will have to be primarily from a limited number of aircraft carriers.

---

I agree that the Chinese Air Force should operate a mixed fighter fleet, given that they have as many runways as they want. But that doesn't apply to the Chinese Navy in the coming years.

Eventually, if the Chinese Navy has enough aircraft carriers, then they could go back to a mixed fleet.

No, the second island chain is 3000km from the mainland. But nobody said you had to fly directly from the mainland. Saipan, Tinian, Guam, Peleliu, Truk, these are all old and familiar names. Because they are old and familiar battlefields, fought with aircraft far more short-ranged and primitive than modern ones. Aircraft which were launched from carriers, yes, but also from island bases close enough to contribute. Attacking and securing those bases is why and how island-hopping worked. And not just for airstrips of course, but also port facilities, supply stockpiles, and so on. Everything you need to fight a protracted high-intensity conflict, which is once again waged with mixed fleets conducting joint operations with navies and land-based fires, and all their requisite support structures. Not some dumb caricature of 100% stealth = cool.

If you want to meaningfully contest the second island chain in sustained fashion (instead of just the occasional raid), then you must do it from bases in the first island chain. Bases which you attacked and secured after gaining local superiority and conducting amphibious assaults. Because that's how and why island-hopping works. The same laws of physics from WWII continue to hold true today.

 

[AndrewS]

Air superiority over sea isn't captured by going after carrier aircraft, it's captured by going after aircraft carriers(or defending them).
This ironically makes non-stealth aircraft (carriers of large missiles, arm and ew on one side, interceptors on the other) more important for air superiority over sea.
Not in absolute terms, but for now at least.

I would say that the Chinese Navy, currently with only 3 aircraft carriers, needs to prioritise the pure air superiority mission, which then leads to ISR capability.

Air superiority is an enabler for other assets to go after opposing carriers.

Actually striking opposing ships with large missiles carried by aircraft is suboptimal, given that there is a shortage of air superiority fighters and the availability of large ASBMs launched from land or from ships.

I agree EW is essential to the air superiority mission, but I don't see there being spare aircraft for the ARM or large missile strike role.