J-15 carrier fighter thread

[Blitzo]

Unfortunately, Yankee and Shilao seems to suggest that the J-15 family may never get WS-10s in one of their latest podcasts.

【歼15为什么一直用俄发？】

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To sum it up:

- Mainly for logistical consistency and ease of maintenance (as dealing with 3 different engines on a single carrier will become pretty challenging).
- The new/upgraded variant of the AL-31F has increased thrusts, and its performance is sufficient for the J-15 family's needs.
- There are no technological, performance and production capacity issues that can be related to the decision to not employ WS-10s on the J-15 family.
- The current production J-15 family is definitely not using "in-storage AL-31Fs" (given how there are only about 30+ Su-33, but there are already more than 100 units of the J-15 family today) - Meaning that the new-built J-15Ts/DTs are definitely using new-built AL-31Fs.
- PLANAF pilots have always been using AL-31Fs till now, hence there may no longer the need to swap the J-15 family's engines for WS-10s (mainly because the pilots are already used to operating AL-31Fs).
- In the next 10-20 years, the AL-31F will continue become a very important/part of Chinese carrier's flight decks (namely, the J-15 family will keep using them).
- As a means of maintaining "military diplomacy goodwill" between China and Russia (this may also relate to the Sino-Flanker agreements between China and Russia).

If this is true, then I suppose the WS-10H2 may only see first usages on future carrier-based UCAVs (and maybe even the LRIP J-XD(S)Hs in case the WS-15H is not ready).

I unironically like this prospect because it will force some people to be more humble and temper their enthusiasm a bit.


Learning that PLA watching is not something to enjoy, but something to endure through, is an important lesson.

 

[Alfa_Particle]

Unfortunately, Yankee and Shilao seems to suggest that the J-15 family may never get WS-10s in one of their latest podcasts.

【歼15为什么一直用俄发？】

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

To sum it up:

- Mainly for logistical consistency and ease of maintenance (as dealing with 3 different engines on a single carrier will become pretty challenging).
- The new/upgraded variant of the AL-31F has increased thrusts, and its performance is sufficient for the J-15 family's needs.
- There are no technological, performance and production capacity issues that can be related to the decision to not employ WS-10s on the J-15 family.
- The current production J-15 family is definitely not using "remaining AL-31Fs in storage" (given how there are only about ~40+ Su-33, but there are already more than 100 units of the J-15 family today) - Meaning that the new-built J-15Ts/DTs are definitely using new-built AL-31Fs.
- PLANAF pilots have always been using AL-31Fs till now, hence there may no longer the need to swap the J-15 family's engines for WS-10s (mainly because the pilots are already used to the operations of the AL-31Fs).
- In the next 10-20 years, the AL-31F will continue become a very important/part of Chinese carrier's flight decks (namely, the J-15 family will keep using them).
- As a means of maintaining "military diplomacy goodwill" between China and Russia (this may also relate to the Sino-Flanker agreements between China and Russia).

If this is true, then I suppose the WS-10H2 may only see first usages on future carrier-based UCAVs (and maybe even the LRIP J-XD(S)Hs in case the WS-15H is not ready).

Ah, so it was 板上钉钉 as in nail in the coffin. *Shrug*

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

Ah, so it was 板上钉钉 as in nail in the coffin. *Shrug*

That means @Oneninety's source is inaccurate, or that our understanding of @Oneninety's words is inaccurate.

Either way (and again), need I remind that 板上钉钉 is not meant for negative connotations?

If you are a native Chinese speaker, then you should know better.

 

[Alfa_Particle]

If you are a native Chinese speaker, you should know better.

Well I'm not, so, thanks. Noted.

Here's the gut punch: one of the reasons was apparently "to feed Russian naval turbofan's production lines"?

Huh?

What kind of abstract reason is that? So they're just gonna... Prioritise UEC's survival over the growth of their own indigenous firms and their expertise?

With the Kuznetsov potentially decommissioning too, the UEC would have absolutely no reason to continue supporting their naval production lines. Why should they care about PLANAF's needs? Didn't the exact thing happened with the AI-322-25?

Are they stupid?

Edit - my sentiment can be summarised by the comment below:

Anyway, it just feels weird that all the carrier high-thrust class engines are Russian-made. People are saying it's for propping up [UEC], and there’ll be endless headaches with logistics and maintenance if they switched to WS-10H2. But if we keep supporting those factories, Russia could turn around and use that against us later—and they're not stranger to those antics. And we can’t use Russian engines forever, right? So sooner or later we’ll have two totally different engine types needing upkeep. I just don’t get it.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

Here's the gut punch: one of the reasons was apparently "to feed Russian naval turbofan's production lines"?

Huh?

What kind of abstract reason is that? So they're just gonna... Prioritise UEC's survival over the growth of their own indigenous firms and their expertise?

With the Kuznetsov potentially decommissioning too, the UEC would have absolutely no reason to continue supporting their naval production lines. Why should they care about PLANAF's needs? Didn't the exact thing happened with the AI-322-25?

Are they stupid?

Hence I choose not to list that one out. Still trying to get my head around that reasoning.

Perhaps it's also related to that Sino-Flanker agreement (and the aforementioned, so-called "military diplomacy")? Though, I don't really know.

Another probable reason could be the relative lower number of planned/expected J-15 family procurement making them think otherwise, compared to their land-based siblings and cousins?

 

[Alfa_Particle]

Perhaps it's also related to that Sino-Flanker agreement (and the aforementioned, so-called "military diplomacy")? Though, I don't really know.

Who cares? It's not like the T-10K-7 was a part of the original deal, nor the Russians actually give a crap about Chinese needs (see the fiasco with AI-322-25). Why are they giving up self-sufficiency in one of the most important facets of their carrier operations and not trying to iron this out ASAP? What's with this 躺平 and 摆烂 attitude?

Another probable reason could be the relative lower number of planned/expected J-15 family procurement making them think otherwise, compared to their land-based siblings and cousins?

No way. 4th gens still have a big role in the forseeable future. The 004 will definitely still have them onboard.

 

[Tomboy]

Another probable reason could be the relative lower number of planned/expected J-15 family procurement making them think otherwise, compared to their land-based siblings and cousins?

J-15T is expected to be produced in the low hundreds (~200 for 4-5 carriers plus some land-based ones), that's a few hundred engines with spares and is in no way considered a small order and could definitely justify a new variant built for it especially with stuff like the WS-10C2 being built for a low number of J-20A LRIPs.

 

[FirebirdFan]

Unfortunately, Yankee and Shilao seems to suggest that the J-15 family may never get WS-10s in one of their latest podcasts.

【歼15为什么一直用俄发？】

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

To sum it up:

- Mainly for logistical consistency and ease of maintenance (as dealing with 3 different engines on a single carrier will become pretty challenging).
- The new/upgraded variant of the AL-31F has increased thrusts, and its performance is sufficient for the J-15 family's needs.
- There are no technological, performance and production capacity issues that can be related to the decision to not employ WS-10s on the J-15 family.
- The current production J-15 family is definitely not using "remaining AL-31Fs in storage" (given how there are only about ~40+ Su-33, but there are already more than 100 units of the J-15 family today) - Meaning that the new-built J-15Ts/DTs are definitely using new-built AL-31Fs.
- PLANAF pilots have always been using AL-31Fs till now, hence there may no longer the need to swap the J-15 family's engines for WS-10s (mainly because the pilots are already used to the operations of the AL-31Fs).
- In the next 10-20 years, the AL-31F will continue become a very important/part of Chinese carrier's flight decks (namely, the J-15 family will keep using them).
- As a means of maintaining "military diplomacy goodwill" between China and Russia (this may also relate to the Sino-Flanker agreements between China and Russia).

If this is true, then I suppose the WS-10H2 may only see first usages on future carrier-based UCAVs (and maybe even the LRIP J-XD(S)Hs in case the WS-15H is not ready).

I wonder if this is referencing the upgraded AL-31F Series 5 we saw at Zhuhai 2024 that was supposed to boost thrust, TBO etc closer to AL-41F than the original AL-31F?

Would give the J-15T (and maybe DH/DT) a plug-and-play upgrade up while maintaining commonality across the fleet.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

I wonder if this is referencing the upgraded AL-31F Series 5 we saw at Zhuhai 2024 that was supposed to boost thrust, TBO etc closer to AL-41F than the original AL-31F?

Would give the J-15T (and maybe DH/DT) a plug-and-play upgrade up while maintaining commonality across the fleet.

Yes, I think that's what they meant.

 

[PersianPrince]

The burden of China's shipborne aviation is heavy. They don't want to be disturbed by the unnecessary change from AL-31 to WS-10. The only reason why the project of naval WS-10 exists is that the supply of AL-31 can be unreliable, especially when Russia is in a tragic and absurd war.