J-15 carrier fighter thread

[Blitzo]

Was I wrong? Feel free to critique!

I think you should read the forum rules.

 

[no_name]

Was I wrong? Feel free to critique!

Well, why do you feel that China is behind India in the fields that you mentioned? Which specific area do you think they fall behind?

I think you should read the forum rules.

Oh, yeah the no comparison between countries bit.

 

[Ultra]

I think you should read the forum rules.

Sorry, I didn't mean to do that. I was merely pointing out the technological difference as a offhand remark.

Well, why do you feel that China is behind India in the fields that you mentioned? Which specific area do you think they fall behind?

Example: Gaofen-1 ("高分一号") (this one was never reported in the western media for some reason, either that or they are calling it by different name) - is an electro-optical "earth observational" (reconnaissance) satellite. The stated resolution is 2 meters / 8 meters. It was supposedly the best China has in its inventory (of course some would argue the military satellite would be better than that and it is classified). The Gaofen-1 ("高分二号") that was launched just 3 months ago (2014/08/19) has improved it marked to 1 meter in black and white, and 3.2 meters in color.


"俄罗斯《商业咨询日报》指出，尽管中国在卫星技术发展上取得了一定的成就，但在高分卫星技术领域仍是“初学者”，其应用处于相对落后的状态。中国于2012年初发射了“高分一号”之前分辨率最高的民用遥感卫星“资源三号01星”，其分辨率为2.1米，而印度在数年前就成功发射了具备相同分辨率的CartoSat-1卫星。因此，中国完全有理由发展民用高分卫星，并进行商业应用。

Cartosat-1号卫星，又名 IRS-P5 ，是印度政府于 2005 年5月5日发射的遥感制图卫星，它搭载有两个分辨率为2.0米的全色传感器，连续扫描，形成同轨立体图像，数据主要用于地形图制图、高精度建模、详细地理制图以及资源调查等。Cartosat-1设计寿命5年，目前卫星运行等各项指标正处于最好的时期，数据质量稳定可靠。"


Now, by comparison - India's Cartosat-1 which was launched back in 2005 (more than 9 years ago! Compare to Gaofen-1 ("高分一号") was launched just last year - 2013) has a resolution of 2.5 meters similar to the Gaofen-1. The Cartosat-2 which was launched back in 2007 (7 years ago) has a resolution of 1 meter which is the same as the just launched Gaofen-2 ("高分二号"). The indian launched a successive improvements to the Cartosat series (besides the 2, there was 2A, 2B) and they are currently about to launch Cartosat-3 which has a stated resolution of just 25 cm - more than 16 times the resolution of current Gaofen-2 ("高分二号"). China is lagging quite behind in this area while the Indians are almost comparable to the European in this regard (the french spy satellite is said to be similarly at 25 cm resolution).

The rest of the article is interesting, and I can't really bother to translate...(you guys should learn to read Chinese! )

美国《全球安全》杂志指出，分辨率为30米的卫星可以发现港口、基地、桥梁、公路及在水面航行的舰船;分辨率为3-7米的卫星能发现雷达、小股部队、导弹发射装置、坦克等目标;分辨率在3米以内的卫星能找到小型军用车辆。据称美国目前较先进的军用侦察卫星，“足以看清某名士兵手中拿的是什么型号的枪支”。由此可见，拥有高分卫星将对部队提高侦查能力起到很大作用。

科索沃战争中，美军作战虽然使用的精确制导弹药只占对地攻击弹药的35％，但其消灭的目标数量却占总数的74％。可见精确打击将在未来战争中占据主要位置。而精确打击首先依赖于预定目标的精确定位。如果没有高分卫星来提供信息，精确定位根本无从谈起。
反制美军用于威慑中国的隐身武器

有外媒推测中国选择在这个时候发射首颗高分卫星，一个重要目的是应对复杂的国际形势。如果“高分一号”卫星服务于解放军，将增强中国的反隐身作战能力。报道指出，美国高调推出的“空海一体战”计划，主要依靠其强大的隐身武器系统威慑中国，包括核潜艇、隐身轰炸机和战斗机，特别是B-2隐身轰炸机、F-22隐身战斗机和未来将大量服役的F-35隐身战斗机，是美国谋求对华军事优势的关键。中国高分卫星服役后，可在一定程度上削弱美军隐身武器的优势。


The other area (aerospace) I was talking about is the launch of Indian Mars orbiter which was a success.
It is debatable if China would be able to do it but news from credible russian source who stated few years ago that India is in front of China technologically on the mars exploration in this regard.




Okay, I apologise, I didn't mean to hijack this - I just want to clarify that's all.

Now, back to J-15!

 

[Blitzo]

Sorry, I didn't mean to do that. I was merely pointing out the technological difference as a offhand remark.

There is a way to frame what you want to see which is in line with the forum rules.
There is an Indian military thread, you can post there regarding what you believe to be Indian aerospace and electro-optic achievements are (without mentioning china).

Personally I'm surprised at your statement too. I'm not sure how the Indian aerospace and EO industry is ahead of china either. I think you may be over ascribing what you perceive as "copying" as not a valid domestic achievement.

 

[Lezt]

Considering Su-27 camer out over 20 years ago (first flight 1977) when China got their hands on it back in 1998, it took almost another 10 years to make indigenous version back in 2007 (J-11B) which makes China 30 years behind. 30 years to catch up to the technology base of 1977 Soviet Russia is not quite an accomplishment IMO. It is like the car magazine I was reading the other day that compared the Chinese SUV (I think it was a Great Wall model) the editor sarcastically remarked : "Drives like a inferior copy of 1990s Toyota RAV4". You tell me if it is an accomplishment if General Motors comes out with a car that shaped and drives like a inferior copy of 1990s Toyota RAV4, right now, in 2014.

Well, there is something wrong with that analogy. A Su 27 of the 1970s is a very different from the SU27SK/30MKK that the J11 is based.

And, why change the air frame design if it is a good one? Just like the B29 continues to fly, If China today can build a B29 and achieve the same service life and reliability, it would still be an achievement. its like, Chrysler, the basic design Jeep haven't changed much for the last 60 years; why change it if it works? Technology is not measured by the year it entered service, a good design will last.

 

[tphuang]

Sorry, I didn't mean to do that. I was merely pointing out the technological difference as a offhand remark.





Example: Gaofen-1 ("高分一号") (this one was never reported in the western media for some reason, either that or they are calling it by different name) - is an electro-optical "earth observational" (reconnaissance) satellite. The stated resolution is 2 meters / 8 meters. It was supposedly the best China has in its inventory (of course some would argue the military satellite would be better than that and it is classified). The Gaofen-1 ("高分二号") that was launched just 3 months ago (2014/08/19) has improved it marked to 1 meter in black and white, and 3.2 meters in color.


"俄罗斯《商业咨询日报》指出，尽管中国在卫星技术发展上取得了一定的成就，但在高分卫星技术领域仍是“初学者”，其应用处于相对落后的状态。中国于2012年初发射了“高分一号”之前分辨率最高的民用遥感卫星“资源三号01星”，其分辨率为2.1米，而印度在数年前就成功发射了具备相同分辨率的CartoSat-1卫星。因此，中国完全有理由发展民用高分卫星，并进行商业应用。

Cartosat-1号卫星，又名 IRS-P5 ，是印度政府于 2005 年5月5日发射的遥感制图卫星，它搭载有两个分辨率为2.0米的全色传感器，连续扫描，形成同轨立体图像，数据主要用于地形图制图、高精度建模、详细地理制图以及资源调查等。Cartosat-1设计寿命5年，目前卫星运行等各项指标正处于最好的时期，数据质量稳定可靠。"


Now, by comparison - India's Cartosat-1 which was launched back in 2005 (more than 9 years ago! Compare to Gaofen-1 ("高分一号") was launched just last year - 2013) has a resolution of 2.5 meters similar to the Gaofen-1. The Cartosat-2 which was launched back in 2007 (7 years ago) has a resolution of 1 meter which is the same as the just launched Gaofen-2 ("高分二号"). The indian launched a successive improvements to the Cartosat series (besides the 2, there was 2A, 2B) and they are currently about to launch Cartosat-3 which has a stated resolution of just 25 cm - more than 16 times the resolution of current Gaofen-2 ("高分二号"). China is lagging quite behind in this area while the Indians are almost comparable to the European in this regard (the french spy satellite is said to be similarly at 25 cm resolution).

The rest of the article is interesting, and I can't really bother to translate...(you guys should learn to read Chinese! )

美国《全球安全》杂志指出，分辨率为30米的卫星可以发现港口、基地、桥梁、公路及在水面航行的舰船;分辨率为3-7米的卫星能发现雷达、小股部队、导弹发射装置、坦克等目标;分辨率在3米以内的卫星能找到小型军用车辆。据称美国目前较先进的军用侦察卫星，“足以看清某名士兵手中拿的是什么型号的枪支”。由此可见，拥有高分卫星将对部队提高侦查能力起到很大作用。

科索沃战争中，美军作战虽然使用的精确制导弹药只占对地攻击弹药的35％，但其消灭的目标数量却占总数的74％。可见精确打击将在未来战争中占据主要位置。而精确打击首先依赖于预定目标的精确定位。如果没有高分卫星来提供信息，精确定位根本无从谈起。
反制美军用于威慑中国的隐身武器

有外媒推测中国选择在这个时候发射首颗高分卫星，一个重要目的是应对复杂的国际形势。如果“高分一号”卫星服务于解放军，将增强中国的反隐身作战能力。报道指出，美国高调推出的“空海一体战”计划，主要依靠其强大的隐身武器系统威慑中国，包括核潜艇、隐身轰炸机和战斗机，特别是B-2隐身轰炸机、F-22隐身战斗机和未来将大量服役的F-35隐身战斗机，是美国谋求对华军事优势的关键。中国高分卫星服役后，可在一定程度上削弱美军隐身武器的优势。


The other area (aerospace) I was talking about is the launch of Indian Mars orbiter which was a success.
It is debatable if China would be able to do it but news from credible russian source who stated few years ago that India is in front of China technologically on the mars exploration in this regard.




Okay, I apologise, I didn't mean to hijack this - I just want to clarify that's all.

Now, back to J-15!

Ultra, when you have to start with "sorry, I didn't mean to do that" and then continue to take things off track, you are really not making this easy for the moderators here. Please have respect for the rule of the forum and not feel the need to respond to really old posts and take them further off topic.

And then you finish with a "Okay, I apologise, I didn't mean to hijack this - I just want to clarify that's all." If you have to use this kind of language, it's clear that your post has no place in this thread other than having a last word. Please stay on topic rather than launching into China vs Russia or China vs India. I can assure that continuing that behaviour will get you banned from this forum.

Also to the other members, please don't respond if Ultra gets off topic, just pm me the thread.

 

[Jeff Head]

It will take them (Sukhoi) even less time than China to copy China. And they will do it better.

Substantially better.

Remember, Russian were able to "copy" (or should I say "inspired" by) American designs and came out with better design all on their own during cold war - they didn't import engines from other countries like China does.

China on the other hand right now seems to be only able to make INFERIOR copy.

The thing is China is still substantially behind Russian's technological base. In some area China is even behind India (aerospace, electro-optical) for that matter.

Ultra, most of this is your own opinion.

There is no doubt that the J-15 is superior to the SU-33 for ecample.

ANd the thing is, this is the J-15 thread, not a US-Russian, or Russia-China comparison thread.

Your phrasing is pretty offensive to others on this forum. There are certainly areas where the Russians excel, there are also areas (more and more of them) where the Chinese excel. Samefor other major nations.

I advised you in another thread to READ THE RULES.

I indicated there that it was a word to the wise.

Now I am instructing you to READ THE RULES and make sure you follow them. If you have specific comments about Russian equipment...post it on the Russian thread.

If you have specific comments about Indian equipment, post it on Indian threads.

Etc., Etc.

Avoid Us vs Them arguments and comments. If you must compare, be more hypothetical, keep it to specifics regarding the aircraft and in the appropriate thread, and leave off comments that put down entire nations because of your own bias or opinion.

Thanks.

Do not respond to the moderation portion (in bold blue) of this post.

Jeff Head
SD SUPER MODERATOR

 

[Deino]

Some good news from Trumpeter ... there will be a PLANAF J-15 as well as a "J-15 limited edition" with flying deck in 1/72 next year ... and also the revised J-20 preserial '201x' !

 

[jzsn]

Some good news from Trumpeter ... there will be a PLANAF J-15 as well as a "J-15 limited edition" with flying deck in 1/72 next year ... and also the revised J-20 preserial '201x' !

1/72 is a little small for me and on the less detail side. Also Trumpeter is kinda famous for giving you a tease then abandoning the projects. So be skeptical.

 

[Deino]

1/72 is a little small for me and on the less detail side. Also Trumpeter is kinda famous for giving you a tease then abandoning the projects. So be skeptical.

Then You simple have to wait for this kit from "Avaition Art Models" !

Co-developed / assisted by "Zactoman" this is IMO one of the best so far manufactured kits

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... and there will be a J-15 soon too.

Deino