J-11 to J-19 aircraft INSIDER INFORMATION (from CJDBY)

Okay, lets come at this from a different angle, and this is the last I will say about it.

Let's look at an Su-27, which we know has AL-31F engines.



Look at the engines carefully. Now look at your photo...a J-11B with "WS-10" engines.



Look familiar? The nozzles are identical. Unless you are suggesting that the WS-10 is a rip off of the AL-31, I just don't understand where you are coming from.

Here is the nozzle of the WS-10 as shown many times.


The engine is shorter, stubbier, has fewer pedals, and lacks the blu-brown flexible pedals when compared to AL-31.

Now, here is a J-11B WITH WS-10



The difference is clear.

Now here is the J-15



The engines on the J-15 are exactly the Su-27 engines. Yet we know that the nozzles on the WS-10 look like, and they are not identical.

It doesn't matter how many sources you give us, we trust what we can see.

Chinese Military Aviation, Defense Update, etc. were right about the WS-10A engines

Centrist said:

Okay, lets come at this from a different angle, and this is the last I will say about it.

Let's look at an Su-27, which we know has AL-31F engines.

Look at the engines carefully. Now look at your photo...a J-11B with "WS-10" engines.

Look familiar? The nozzles are identical. Unless you are suggesting that the WS-10 is a rip off of the AL-31, I just don't understand where you are coming from.

Here is the nozzle of the WS-10 as shown many times.
View attachment 5199

The engine is shorter, stubbier, has fewer pedals, and lacks the blu-brown flexible pedals when compared to AL-31.

Now, here is a J-11B WITH WS-10

The difference is clear.

Now here is the J-15

View attachment 5200

The engines on the J-15 are exactly the Su-27 engines. Yet we know that the nozzles on the WS-10 look like, and they are not identical.

It doesn't matter how many sources you give us, we trust what we can see.

Click to expand...

The engine petals in the first two pictures that you posted are clearly longer than the J-15 Flying Shark prototype #2 (see picture below). Your eyes should be able to clearly see the difference. The close-up shot of the J-15 Flying Shark engine shows shorter petals and resembles your third picture.

Your pictures have proven that the J-15 prototype that flew in 2009 used AL-31F engines. Also, as far as my eyes can see, your pictures have proven that the recent J-15 Flying Shark prototype #2 uses WS-10A engines. By the way, the picture in your attachment shows an obscured engine from a distance and it is inconclusive. In my opinion, your pictures have proven that Chinese Military Aviation, Defense Update, and Military of China are correct in claiming that the J-15 Flying Shark is using WS-10A engines.


"Some components onboard the J-15 Flying Shark are based on those onboard J-11B, such as the anti-ship enhanced PD radar, the glass cockpit as well as the improved WS-10 turbofan engine."

Reference: Chinese Military Aviation (see )

[Note: Thank you to "A.Man" for the picture.]

Martian, you need to stay away from defe***.pk

seriously, this is getting silly

paintgun said:

Martian, you need to stay away from defe***.pk

seriously, this is getting silly

Click to expand...

Well, that's it, I give up.

paintgun said:

Martian, you need to stay away from defe***.pk

seriously, this is getting silly

Click to expand...

My analysis is based on my own objective observations. While I already know that I cannot sway you, my posts are meant to inform unbiased readers and I let them make their own judgment. I find nothing silly about this. This is a fair debate. You raise your points and I raise mine. You don't see me complaining about your point of view.

Martian said:

My analysis is based on my own objective observations. While I already know that I cannot sway you, my posts are meant to inform unbiased readers and I let them make their own judgment. I find nothing silly about this. This is a fair debate. You raise your points and I raise mine. You don't see me complaining about your point of view.

Click to expand...

You are seeing stuffs

your earlier post mixing old and new J-15 pics showed that you did not clearly understand the difference between WS-10 and AL-31

when someone pointed them out, you went and cherrypicked the picture with the most distorted perspective and angle, showing foreshortened AL-31

your 'objective observation' is embarassing to the forum and to people like Deino and the old timers

it is silly

"Paintgun," I am fed up with your name calling

paintgun said:

You are seeing stuffs

your earlier post mixing old and new J-15 pics showed that you did not clearly understand the difference between WS-10 and AL-31

when someone pointed them out, you went and cherrypicked the picture with the most distorted perspective and angle, showing foreshortened AL-31

your 'objective observation' is embarassing to the forum and to people like Deino and the old timers

it is silly

Click to expand...

Your mind demonstrates no flexibility. I have already provided three citations to support my view and I have stated that I am willing to reconsider my opinion based on new evidence. One of the forum members insisted on determining the identity of the jet engines based on physical characteristics. I have expressed my opinion. You are free to disagree with me.

However, this is the last time that I will respond to your post. I will not dignify your personal attacks of "an embarrassment" and repeated name-calling of "silly."

It is important that I stand up for all members and their right to disagree if there is reasonable evidence to support a different opinion.

Your attempts to stifle a different opinion, which has been supported by ample citations and reasonable observations of photographs, is the true embarrassment to the forum. It does not matter whether I am ultimately proven correct or not. I do not expect to be right all the time. However, I expect to be treated with reciprocal courtesy by other members; which is something that you severely lack.

You may argue petal length, number of petals, or present convincing pictures. However, I do not appreciate personal attacks against me. I have posted ample citations and pictures to help illuminate the issue on the J-15 engines.

You have posted nothing: zero citations, zero pictures, and zero explanations.

In closing, I will provide a fourth citation from another military website to demonstrate that the issue of the J-15 Flying Shark engines is far from settled at this point in time.

----------

From Global Military Review, which demonstrates uncertainty regarding the type of engines on the J-15 Flying Shark. At this point in time, the only information that we have to ascertain the engine identity is petal length and number. This is an ambiguous measure, which is reflected in Global Military Review's specifications for the J-15 Flying Shark.



"Sukhoi Su-33/J-15

Wing span: 14.70 m (48.23 ft)
Length: 21.90 m (71.85 ft)
Height: 5.90 m (19.33 ft)
Operating weight, empty: 17,700 kg (39,021 lb)
Max take-off weight: 32,000 kg (70,546 lb)
Max internal fuel: 9,400 kg (20,723 lb)
Max weapon load: 6,500 kg (14,330 lb)
Max level speed at sea level: 739 kts (1,370 km/h)
Range at low altitude: 739 n miles (1,370 km)
Engine: 2 x AL-31F turbofans or 2x WS-10A "Taihang" turbofans with Dry thrust: 89.17 kN and Thrust with afterburner: 129.4 kN
Accommodation: 1 (pilot)
Sensors: Track-while-scan pulse Doppler radar, IR scanner
Weapons: 1 × 30 mm gun,
Hardpoints: 10: 2 under fuselage, 2 under air ducts, 4 under wings, 2 on wingtips and provisions to carry combinations of:
Air to Air Missiles: PL-12, PL-9 and PL-8.

Anti-ship missiles: YJ-8K, YJ-82K and KD-88
Anti-radiation missiles: Yingji-91"

Re: "Paintgun," I am fed up with your name calling

ignore list you go, sorry

back to lurking, popeye can delete my OT posts if felt necessary
i miss the old SDF

Centrist said:

Okay, lets come at this from a different angle, and this is the last I will say about it.

Let's look at an Su-27, which we know has AL-31F engines.

Look at the engines carefully. Now look at your photo...a J-11B with "WS-10" engines.

Look familiar? The nozzles are identical. Unless you are suggesting that the WS-10 is a rip off of the AL-31, I just don't understand where you are coming from.

Here is the nozzle of the WS-10 as shown many times.
View attachment 5199

The engine is shorter, stubbier, has fewer pedals, and lacks the blu-brown flexible pedals when compared to AL-31.

Now, here is a J-11B WITH WS-10

The difference is clear.

Now here is the J-15

View attachment 5200

The engines on the J-15 are exactly the Su-27 engines. Yet we know that the nozzles on the WS-10 look like, and they are not identical.

It doesn't matter how many sources you give us, we trust what we can see.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the pictures comparing the aircrafts and engines. From this post, it is quite clear that the J-15 pics show it to be using AL-31F.

Finally for not making this tread even more silly and boring than it already is:

- please do not quote a previous post with all pictures ... esp. in echa nd every answer You post !

- don't post numerous "sources" showing each and everytime ther same ... most likely they just copy & past from one and other. It's the quality of a source (and even here not all good ones are fail-safe) and not the number.

- LOOK and THINK ... even if others tell different.

I think everyone has made his point ... let us leave this PLEASE !

Deino

Deino