J-10 Thread IV

[Black Wolf]

"Cross-posting here from JF17 thread, since its more appropriate thread"

Many people believe that the Pakistan Air Force's (PAF) J-10CEs are simply downgraded versions of the PLAAF's J-10Cs. While I’m not claiming that this perception is entirely baseless, it doesn’t present the full picture.

The PAF has reportedly provided several inputs to AVIC to tailor the aircraft to its specific operational requirements. Therefore, labeling the J-10CE as merely a downgraded version is misleading, it is more accurately described as a customized variant built to suit PAF’s strategic needs.

Moreover, recent reports suggest that a successful engagement was carried out at a range exceeding 190 km. This challenges earlier assumptions that the export-version PL-15E missile was limited to a range of around 150 km.

This also indirectly reflects the capability of the J-10CE’s AESA radar, suggesting it has a detection range beyond 200 km, further supporting the idea that the PAF’s J-10CEs are not significantly inferior, but instead well-tailored and operationally potent platforms.

 

[ying1978]

Then it's second hand J10C.

If that second hand deal turns out to be true, I'm more inclined to believe it is J-10A/B with avionics and possibly radar upgraded to J-10C standard. I remember several years back the Guancha trio had mentioned the PLAAF wanting to retire some of their early J-10As and there has been rumours about North Korean pilots being trained in China on the J-10A.

 

[Deino]

"Cross-posting here from JF17 thread, since its more appropriate thread"

Many people believe that the Pakistan Air Force's (PAF) J-10CEs are simply downgraded versions of the PLAAF's J-10Cs. While I’m not claiming that this perception is entirely baseless, it doesn’t present the full picture.

The PAF has reportedly provided several inputs to AVIC to tailor the aircraft to its specific operational requirements. Therefore, labeling the J-10CE as merely a downgraded version is misleading, it is more accurately described as a customized variant built to suit PAF’s strategic needs.

Moreover, recent reports suggest that a successful engagement was carried out at a range exceeding 190 km. This challenges earlier assumptions that the export-version PL-15E missile was limited to a range of around 150 km.

This also indirectly reflects the capability of the J-10CE’s AESA radar, suggesting it has a detection range beyond 200 km, further supporting the idea that the PAF’s J-10CEs are not significantly inferior, but instead well-tailored and operationally potent platforms.

No, many peoples are in fact aware that the J-10CE is a special variant based on the PLAAF variant J-10C Batch 07/08 and in fact NO-ONE claims "J-10CEs are simply downgraded versions of the PLAAF's J-10Cs"! In fact it is only a certain issue - I'd almost call it that way: Based on some sort of inferiority complex some PAF fanboys constantly claim they're special, better, or even that the PLAAF's J-10C is only so good because of Pakistan's input!

Therefore let's stick to the facts: It's based on the regular C, but it's slightly different, although we hardly know whether it's actually better or more limited or inferior in certain functions. And that's where we should stop speculating.

 

[Black Wolf]

No, many peoples are in fact aware that the J-10CE is a special variant based on the PLAAF variant J-10C Batch 07/08 and in fact NO-ONE claims "J-10CEs are simply downgraded versions of the PLAAF's J-10Cs"! In fact it is only a certain issue - I'd almost call it that way: Based on some sort of inferiority complex some PAF fanboys constantly claim they're special, better, or even that the PLAAF's J-10C is only so good because of Pakistan's input!

Therefore let's stick to the facts: It's based on the regular C, but it's slightly different, although we hardly know whether it's actually better or more limited or inferior in certain functions. And that's where we should stop speculating.

There’s really no need to inject humor or exaggeration into what should be a factual discussion. The point of my message was to highlight that the notion that the J-10CE is merely a downgraded version of the PLAAF’s J-10C doesn’t capture the full picture. That perspective overlooks the fact that the PAF worked with AVIC to adapt the platform to its own operational requirements.

No one is claiming the J-10CE is superior or that it somehow enhances the PLAAF’s variant taking the conversation in that direction only distracts from the technical realities. The CE is a customized export variant, and while detailed specs aren't publicly available, labeling it as simply inferior is reductive.

Also, please stop injecting Pakistani fanboyism into what should be a factual discussion. Recent credible reports of long-range engagements reflect well on the aircraft’s radar and missile performance, suggesting it is a capable and well-integrated system.

Let’s keep the discussion focused on verifiable information and avoid unnecessary speculation or exaggeration.

 

[siegecrossbow]

There’s really no need to inject humor or exaggeration into what should be a factual discussion. The point of my message was to highlight that the notion that the J-10CE is merely a downgraded version of the PLAAF’s J-10C doesn’t capture the full picture. That perspective overlooks the fact that the PAF worked with AVIC to adapt the platform to its own operational requirements.

No one is claiming the J-10CE is superior or that it somehow enhances the PLAAF’s variant taking the conversation in that direction only distracts from the technical realities. The CE is a customized export variant, and while detailed specs aren't publicly available, labeling it as simply inferior is reductive.

Also, please stop injecting Pakistani fanboyism into what should be a factual discussion. Recent credible reports of long-range engagements reflect well on the aircraft’s radar and missile performance, suggesting it is a capable and well-integrated system.

Let’s keep the discussion focused on verifiable information and avoid unnecessary speculation or exaggeration.

They have different requirements than PLAAF J-10s due to the fact that it occupies a different niche in PAF. It is superior in some aspects and made trade offs in others.

 

[Deino]

There’s really no need to inject humor or exaggeration into what should be a factual discussion. The point of my message was to highlight that the notion that the J-10CE is merely a downgraded version of the PLAAF’s J-10C doesn’t capture the full picture. That perspective overlooks the fact that the PAF worked with AVIC to adapt the platform to its own operational requirements.

...

Also, please stop injecting Pakistani fanboyism into what should be a factual discussion. Recent credible reports of long-range engagements reflect well on the aircraft’s radar and missile performance, suggesting it is a capable and well-integrated system.

Let’s keep the discussion focused on verifiable information and avoid unnecessary speculation or exaggeration.

In fact I can only live due to taking such posts with humour!

Again, NO-ONE claimed it to be downgraded of some sort (at least not here) until you brought it on the table and explained in length this and that and why this and that not! Totally unnecessary, as if we were discussing that the sky is NOT green - what in fact we all agree! Namely it si indeed "a capable and well-integrated system"! But why discussing things we all agree - besides some stupid posts in the social media?

Therefore again, if you really want to discuss something meaningful in this regard, it would be to post in what exact details they differ and why!


But let me add one final word on thsi:

...
No one is claiming the J-10CE is superior or that it somehow enhances the PLAAF’s variant taking the conversation in that direction only distracts from the technical realities. The CE is a customized export variant, and while detailed specs aren't publicly available, labeling it as simply inferior is reductive.
...

I think you are not aware on what nonsense some Pakistani fan-boys are spreading and and since I know this BS for years and have been trying to refute it, I can't really agree with you here!

 

[Black Wolf]

In fact I can only live due to taking such posts with humour!

Again, NO-ONE claimed it to be downgraded of some sort (at least not here) until you brought it on the table and explained in length this and that and why this and that not! Totally unnecessary, as if we were discussing that the sky is NOT green - what in fact we all agree! Namely it si indeed "a capable and well-integrated system"! But why discussing things we all agree - besides some stupid posts in the social media?

Therefore again, if you really want to discuss something meaningful in this regard, it would be to post in what exact details they differ and why!


But let me add one final word on thsi:

Humor has no place in a factual discussion like this; it only serves to undermine the seriousness of the topic and comes across as disgraceful. The recent credible reports of the J-10CE’s long-range engagement successes clearly demonstrate its capabilities. These facts alone should be enough to keep the conversation focused, rather than distracted by unnecessary jokes or speculation.

As @siegecrossbow rightly pointed out, “They have different requirements than PLAAF J-10s because it occupies a different niche in the PAF. It is superior in some aspects and has made trade-offs in others.”

I think you are not aware on what nonsense some Pakistani fan-boys are spreading and and since I know this BS for years and have been trying to refute it, I can't really agree with you here!

I understand the concerns, but I genuinely believe that labeling entire nationalities or groups as "fanboys" isn’t helpful and tends to derail meaningful discussion. Such generalizations usually do more harm than good.

For context, I’ve been following this forum for nearly two decades, not as a registered member, but as a regular viewer since the JeffHead (RIP) days. I’ve always appreciated fact-based, respectful discourse and believe that’s what we should strive for here.

 

[Deino]

…I’ve always appreciated fact-based, respectful discourse and believe that’s what we should strive for here.

Agreed, but why then this post about „Many people believe that the Pakistan Air Force's (PAF) J-10CEs are simply downgraded versions of the PLAAF's J-10Cs.“ since at least here NO-one thinks that way!

By the way, a factory-fresh J-10CE with the number 204 (most likely cn. 02024) for a yet unnamed customer was shown in the Chinese media.

Most interesting to know would be therefore: Who‘s that still unknown customer and is this at CAC or GAIC?




Source:

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[Black Wolf]

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In the background, it appears to be a new unit not entirely sure but it seems to have PAF markings on it, as shown below.

 

[Hermes]

View attachment 153441

In the background, it appears to be a new unit not entirely sure but it seems to have PAF markings on it, as shown below.

View attachment 153442

Ahh, missed that one. So a total of 3 are present in the images