manqiangrexue
Brigadier
How can the PLAAF accept this? What aerodynamic gains came from these trade-offs?
J-10 Thread IV
- Thread starter Jeff Head
- Start date
They have to upgrade because slotted array radar deteriorates after decades of use, some times losing up to 50 percent of detection range. This is coupled with the fact that China has dropped support for slotted array radars production…
Indonesia has Su-30 and Su-27s which both use Al-31 engines, inducting another fighter with Al-31 would be much cheaper since they don't have to build a completely new supply chain for WS-10. So, IMO J-10As using Al-31 would actually be a plus instead of a minus.
J-10B and C went with a DSI for lighter weight, signature reductions and easier maintenance but trades top speed and some high-altitude performance since a ramp supersonic intake is more efficient at higher speeds than DSI.
I guess the obvious answer is DSI.
Gains - no complexity/maintenance(variable intake requires attention, when it jams - it's a big problem), hides engine front from bluefor radar.
Well there wouldn't be aerodynamic gains lol.
The whole point would be that there are some minor losses in aerodynamic performance, for gains in other domains -- as others have said, maintainability, signature reduction, and likely lower weight as well.
That should speak to the relative importance of bleeding edge/minor gains in aerodynamic performance for the role of the aircraft...
simonov
Junior Member
The Indonesian Air Force (TNI-AU) was reported to have approved a proposal to procure up to 42 used J-10 Vigorous Dragon fighter aircraft from China as part of its efforts to modernize and expand its combat capabilities.
According to Intelligence Online, the TNI-AU has been looking at rapid ways to build up its fighter fleet after delays in replacing its retired fleet of Northrop F-5E/F Tiger II light fighters.
The Indonesian Ministry of Defence (MOD) under the leadership of former Defence Minister and now Indonesian President Prabowo Subianto previously proposed the acquisition of several different platforms, both brand new and used.
Among them were the Russian-made Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker, 11 of which were ordered in 2018 but cancelled in 2021; brand new Dassault Rafale F4 from France, of which a total of 42 units were ordered in several batches; ex-Qatari Dassault Mirage 2000-5 which was cancelled, brand new Boeing F-15EX Eagle II fighters in which the MOD signed a Memorandum of Agreement for 24 units in 2023; and participation in South Korea’s KF-X program as a stakeholder.
Due to the long duration to acquire, manufacture and deliver new fighters, the Indonesian MOD held discussions with China on possible alternatives, with the proposal to sell second-hand J-10 fighters being floated.
The J-10s will be taken from active fighter squadrons of the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF), which in turn will receive much newer fighters. This allows for the immediate delivery of the fighters.
The recent conflict between India and Pakistan and the reported success of a Pakistan Air Force J-10C fighter in downing a Rafale fighter of the Indian Air Force using a Chinese-made PL-15 long range air-to-air missile drew further interest from Indonesia to consider the proposal.
he has said this for several weeks now. He and Shilao also said they hope that the recent exercise will encourage Egyptian Air Force to buy Chinese aircraft and systems.
If Indonesia does buy used j-10a with AESA and AL-31, it is amatch made in Heaven win-win situation for China and Indonesia.
I am quite skeptical of Indonesia purchasing advanced Chinese arms. It just doesn’t make strategic sense for Jakarta. As much as Indo is cooperating with China on HSR, mining, and other techs, Jakarta long has an active hedging strategy against China by balancing Beijing through defence collaborations with Washington and Moscow. On the other hand, most Chinese have not forgotten the anti-Chinese pogroms of 1965 and 1998.
I still don't get why Indonesia would want J-10A, if they get any J-10.
Those are old planes that have been out of production for at least a decade so parts would be an issue, they use a different Al-31 variant to any Flankers, so out goes most of the maintenance benefit.
And most importantly, they were most likely ridden hard by the PLAAF units flying them, considering China's severe lack of 4th gen fighters during their time of introduction, so they're most likely structurally shot. Even considering PLAAF's relatively good maintenance track record, I don't see how it's a good idea.
ID would need to get it structurally refreshed, then MLUed with new radar, presumably new avionics, etc. All that expense (modern avionics are expensive, not to mention sctructural MLU) for a second hand aricraft? Not worth it IMO.
P.S. I had the same attitude towards the ex-Qatari Mirage 2000-5s, the ID govt came back to their senses and cancelled that project, but now comes BS 2.0 -_-
P.S 2. If anything, ID Air force is much more in a dire need of any special sensor aircraft, be it AWACS, EW, etc. Otherwise, those J-10As would still be food in an actual real war.