J-10 Thread IV

[latenlazy]

Like I said, this rumour is ancient, and we never really had it properly substantiated or contextualised.

That is why I'm not a huge fan of resurrecting it willy nilly, because it doesn't actually help the conversation.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

So this was the original source for a lot of the details we’ve been told about the development history of the WS-10. No mention of the spool up time issue, but there is mention of stalling under certain flight conditions. And apparently there were as many as 20,000 other issues according to this account, so it’s not improbable that there may have been a spool up time issue as well, especially since a lot of the issues with the Taihang seemed to involve very poor pairing between the fan and compressor design. In fact I suspect what the “spool up time” issue really was, when considering the particular issue of the fan and compressor stages not working well together, is that if the engine stalled from something like the fan choking flow to the compressor, the same conditions that led to the stall probably also led to unreliable or delayed recovery of thrust, which would then manifest as an inability for the engine to readily to spool back up.

At least according to this account though these were problems encountered in the very early days of the engine’s production, and the issues should be more or less resolved by now given the kinds of revisions and updates as laid out in the piece.

 

[Deino]

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

So this was the original source for a lot of the details we’ve been told about the development history of the WS-10. No mention of the spool up time issue, but there is mention of stalling under certain flight conditions. And apparently there were as many as 20,000 other issues according to this account, so it’s not improbable that there may have been a spool up time issue as well, especially since a lot of the issues with the Taihang seemed to involve very poor pairing between the fan and compressor design. In fact I suspect what the “spool up time” issue really was, when considering the particular issue of the fan and compressor stages not working well together, is that if the engine stalled from something like the fan choking flow to the compressor, the same conditions that led to the stall probably also led to unreliable or delayed recovery of thrust, which would then manifest as an inability for the engine to readily to spool back up.

At least according to this account though these were problems encountered in the very early days of the engine’s production, and the issues should be more or less resolved by now given the kinds of revisions and updates as laid out in the piece.

Thanks a lot for finding the original source

 

[minusone]

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

So this was the original source for a lot of the details we’ve been told about the development history of the WS-10. No mention of the spool up time issue, but there is mention of stalling under certain flight conditions. And apparently there were as many as 20,000 other issues according to this account, so it’s not improbable that there may have been a spool up time issue as well, especially since a lot of the issues with the Taihang seemed to involve very poor pairing between the fan and compressor design. In fact I suspect what the “spool up time” issue really was, when considering the particular issue of the fan and compressor stages not working well together, is that if the engine stalled from something like the fan choking flow to the compressor, the same conditions that led to the stall probably also led to unreliable or delayed recovery of thrust, which would then manifest as an inability for the engine to readily to spool back up.

At least according to this account though these were problems encountered in the very early days of the engine’s production, and the issues should be more or less resolved by now given the kinds of revisions and updates as laid out in the piece.

this was referring to ws-10A no?

 

[Dylan Nguyen]

J-10C's under the Southern Theatre Command

 

[Dylan Nguyen]

J-10S and J-10A under the Southern Theatre Command

 

[minusone]

Regarding ws-10 development path, that article up there only explained the struggle.

There's a summary of the official published articles from this link, and the author seems to know someone from AVIC to reconfirm some of the inferences about ws-10.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Basically, there was one published article that showed data depicting WS-10A has even better high altitude and high speed performances than AL-31, which explained why AVIC claim j20 can supercruise despite without equipping the low BPR WS-15.
Other vital information:
-WS-10B (~144kN)
-WS-10C (> 144kN)

And the insider from AVIC cleared the assertion that ws-10 is copy of Al31 or F110 etc, claiming that it is harder to reverse engineer the turbofan engine, than starting from scratch. Their 40 years of struggle is a testament to this.

The slow equip of ws-10 to J15 could well be modification imposed to withstand the high saline working environment.

 

[luosifen]

ENG subtitles are in the video.

Video description:

This legendary Chinese female pilot has flown a total of four types of aircraft, including CJ-6, J-8, J-7 and J-10. She has won third-class merit three times and second-class merit once. She is the only female pilot who has participated in three military parades in a fighter plane so far, namely the 60th National Day military parade, the 70th anniversary military parade commemorating the victory of the Anti-Japanese War, and the 2019 National Day military parade. She has performed many Chinese and foreign air shows and military exchange activities, and is the holder of the record of zero mistakes in air performances. She is also the first female captain of the China Bayi Aerobatic Team.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Main challenge is still with the spool up time. But given the Russo Ukrainian War they may soon have no choice if they still wish to expand the J-15 fleet.

That said I do think that reliability/range with WS-10 is probably better than that of AL-31FN. No reason why South Theater Command jets shouldn’t have done this given that they’ve been using J-10C since 2018.

 

[sequ]

According to the PAF, their J-10C have 29000lb of thrust:

"The J-10C can produce 29,000 lb thrust,"

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[craftfish]

According to the PAF, their J-10C have 29000lb of thrust:

"The J-10C can produce 29,000 lb thrust,"

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

View attachment 102588

If WS-10B can only produce 29000lb of thrust, then it's worse than the WS-10A without restricted thrust.
The only thing I can tell from the picture is "WS-10 engine could produce thrust in excess of 29000lb."