J-10 Thread IV

[Melcane]

Pakistan have J-10 in their F-16s. Until China introduces J-10c, improves the production and reduces the manufacturing costs there is not any chance of exporting it. When China would improve avionics, introduce powerful engine and rams up production efficiencies ( of J-10 and even J-11 or J-16), it would be able to export it to Pakistan and other countries. It would happen only if Russia and USA cannot export comparable MR fighters at affordable prices.
China would meet its own requirements first. Exports are secondary considerations.

 

[vesicles]

I don't see the logic behind your points. Why USA can offer its most advanced fighter (like F15) to Israel and his other allies? Why USSR and Russia can do the same to other countries? Why can't China?

The F-15 is not the most advanced fighter for the U.S. The F-15 was developed in the 1970's. The F-22 enjoys the title of being the most advanced fighter. The F-22 has been active in the USAF for a long while, but do you see any other country flies F-22?

 

[lostboy]

The F-15 is not the most advanced fighter for the U.S. The F-15 was developed in the 1970's. The F-22 enjoys the title of being the most advanced fighter. The F-22 has been active in the USAF for a long while, but do you see any other country flies F-22?

You need to check the date when Israel got its first batch of F-15...

And mind you, Su-35 is Russian's most advanced fighter in active service and they also sold it to China who is famous (or notorious?) for its history of copying every Russian fighter they got in hand.

The only reason that USA don't want to sell F-22 to other countries is because it's a fighter designed for the future. F-22 is way beyond it's time. Do China has the capital to say that for any of its warplane? There are too many competitor to J-10B existing on the market like Euro Fighter, Rafale, Su-35, the latest F-15 and F-18 which are not inferior at all to J-10B.

 

[vesicles]

You need to check the date when Israel got its first batch of F-15...

And mind you, Su-35 is Russian's most advanced fighter in active service and they also sold it to China who is famous (or notorious?) for its history of copying every Russian fighter they got in hand.

The only reason that USA don't want to sell F-22 to other countries is because it's a fighter designed for the future. F-22 is way beyond it's time. Do China has the capital to say that for any of its warplane? There are too many competitor to J-10B existing on the market like Euro Fighter, Rafale, Su-35, the latest F-15 and F-18 which are not inferior at all to J-10B.

You need to check your facts on the Su-35. And my argument stands: the U.S. Is not selling its most advanced fighters to other nations, including Israel. Enough said.

 

[lostboy]

You need to check your facts on the Su-35. And my argument stands: the U.S. Is not selling its most advanced fighters to other nations, including Israel. Enough said.

Are you illiterate? USA sold F-15, the most advanced fighter at the time, to Israel in 1970s. What's the point to argue, kid?

I really hate to argue with people who like to base their view on imagination not facts!

 

[vesicles]

Are you illiterate? USA sold F-15, the most advanced fighter at the time, to Israel in 1970s. What's the point to argue, kid?

I really hate to argue with people who like to base their view on imagination not facts!

I suggest you calm down and avoid insulting comments and personal attacks. And based on the current behavior of the U.S., my arguments stand.

And I bet my money that China will NOT export their J-10B in the near future. The end of that discussion.

 

[Jeff Head]

Are you illiterate? USA sold F-15, the most advanced fighter at the time, to Israel in 1970s. What's the point to argue, kid?

I really hate to argue with people who like to base their view on imagination not facts!

Lost boy. you are new here. You need to:

1) Understand the rules of SD. Read them and follow them.
2) Not be so fast to throw insults around. Many of us know vesicles very well and he is far, far from illiterate. He is also a long time and well respected member of this forum...you on the other hand are brand new here, and it is yet to be determined how well respected you may be in say, eight or nine years from now.

But insulting vesicles is not a very good start,

The fact is, the US does not...right now...sell it's most advanced air superiority fighter (the F-22) to anyone.

The F-22 first flew in 1997 and was made active and operational in 2005...15 years ago. No one has it but the US. This is what Vesicles is referring to, and it is a fact.

The F-15 first flew in 1972 and was made operational in 1976. It is true that the Israelis got their first aircraft in 1977, almost 40 years ago. That is also a fact., and is what you are referring to.

Which of the two do you think has the most relevance today?

That answer is clear...and is exactly what vesicles is referring to.

 

[MastanKhan]

Twenty J-10B's?? How many J-10B's does China have now in stock??? 40-50? And they offered half of that to Pakistan? Hard to believe...
Where did you get this info? Any source?

Again, I've said this many times. The J-10B is still China's most advanced fighter in active service. There is simply no way that China would offer its most advanced fighter to someone else. I understand that Pakistan and China enjoy a long and close friendship. However, China's first and foremost priority is still its own interests.

Mr. Vesicles---Sir,

You may say whatever you want to---and I know what I know---. I know that many of you are technically far knowledgeable than me---serving and retd air force personal---.
With gwadar port deal signing---everything and anything from china is available to Pakistan.

You comments of " simply no way " does not mean didly ---.

You guys don't want to accept it---and that is fine---. I am not arguing over it.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Jeff Head---there are over fifty other links on the subject---. Pappy---I respect your technical knowledge---.But that is where it ends----no disrespect---hehn.

 

[Jeff Head]

I know what I know---.

Sorry, MastanKhan, but that is not a verified, official documentation of anything.

With gwadar port deal signing---everything and anything from china is available to Pakistan.

Again, this is completely unsubstantiated and an off the wall comment.

Are Chinese nuclear weapons available?

Is the Type 095 nuclear attack submarine available?

Is the Type 094 nuclear ballistic missile submarine available?

Is the J-20 available?

The Type 052D destroyers?

You see? I think you get my drift...everything and anything simply is not available.

You comments of " simply no way " does not mean didly ---.

Actually here on SD it does.

Vesicles has a long and trusted history here on SD.

He is not known for being rash or saying things out of turn.

You guys don't want to accept it---and that is fine---. I am not arguing over it.

Actually...you are. Your entire post is a counter to it.

Jeff Head---there are over fifty other links on the subject---. Pappy---I respect your technical knowledge---.But that is where it ends----no disrespect---hehn.

No disrespect taken.

However, you did not provide at all what I asked for.

I asked for a specific link...one to any kind of official PRC announcement that they have offered J-10s of any type to Pakistan.

None of the links you provided do that.

The Defense News reference in Global Security says that a deal was signed in 2009 according to a Defense News article in 2013...four years after the fact and with no official confirmation and documentation to this day.

It is now 2015, six years after the so-called $1.4 billion deal. We all have heard of it here...but now, six years later, there is no indication at all that Pakistan ever purchased anything, and there has never been, to my knowledge, an official confirmation or announcement from the PRC of such a deal.

Ergo...it is most likely that no such deal ever existed in the first place.

In fact, a later Defense News articel thens aid that the deal was "uncertain."

That means, again, that it is not verified or confirmed at all.

This is what I was referring to.

Having watched Chinese weapons system development for over 15 years...I have learned that NOTHING is really confirmed until the PRC announces it themselves. I have never seen a PRC announcement about any J-10 purchase agreement for Pakistan.

Do you know of one?

Unless you have a link to such an announcement, then on one thing you are completely correct about is this...

This discussion DOES END HERE ON SD until such time that a official announcement is either linked to, or happens in the future..

If you find one I will be the first to post it and restart the discussion rom that point.

SD has a reputation of being one of the most professional military/defense forums on the net.

If something is unsubstantiated, or unverified, that is okay and we accept such statements as such.

But it is something different to say something is a "fact," when there is no verification for it.

We will challenge it...and in the absence of any verified, documented official announcement, we will then call it what it is. A rumor, a "he said she said."

Again, unless you can provide a link to an official PRC announcement...and we are not interested in "according to," type articles...then let's let the discussion about saying that it is a fact, or certain that the PRC has sold J-10s to Pakistan (once again, because this is not the first time at all)...end right here.

Thanks.

 

[Jeff Head]

The discussion about any factual sale by China of J-10s of any sort to Pakistan is closed until such time as there is a documented, verifiable official announcement or documentation of that fact by the PRC.

Please continue with all other J-10 and J-10B news.

DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MODERATION