J-10 Thread IV
- Thread starter Jeff Head
- Start date
Not trying to take sides or get involved in what seems like a pretty long - which I haven't read thoroughly - debate or discussion, but where should one read up or post about the J-10 acquisition issue concerning Pakistan and the PAF?
I'm asking because I'm not sure whether that kind discussion belongs here or somewhere in a Pakistan military thread.
Good question. I think as long as it concerns the PAF and J-10 it is fine to pots it here. Otherwise I think the general Pakistan thread would be better.
Some J-10Cs at a recent exercise... All images are high-resolution.
Question: In the last photo, what is the payload carried by the middle pylon on either wing?
That's a practice bomb dispenser pod
plawolf
Lieutenant General
I am really puzzled by all this ‘anything Pakistan wants Pakistan gets’ talk, as that kind of thing has never before happened in the history of international relations. Even the likes of US-Israel and US-UK have limitations on what tech can and cannot be shared.
It has all the hallmarks and feels like a classic false flag campaign trying to drive a wedge between Pakistan and China.
WRT to the PAF and J10, well I think there are a lot of reasons for why the PAF didn’t go for it, and it would be harsh to blame them too much for it with the benefit of hindsight.
We really need to remember what a quantum leap Chinese aviation tech has taken in the last couple of decades, and it all started to bear fruit with the J10.
Before that, China was only able to make modificied copies of ancient Soviet and Russian designs.
The J10 was Chinese aviation’s big break out moment, but at the time, there was still a lot of doubt about its capabilities, which were not helped by China’s secrecy.
At the same time, Pakistan has a lot of history operating F16s, with a lot of the key decision makers highly in love with it. Throw in American military assistance aid that could be used to offset purchase costs, and it really was a deal too good to pass up.
Given its history, I think the PAF was also hesitant to place too many eggs in one basket.
With all of these considerations, they kind of missed the boat on the J10.
By the time the eventually decided to go for the J10, the likes of the J20 and J31 started to appear, and suddenly the J10 doesn’t seem all that exciting or appealing when compared to the prospect of getting 5th gens.
And no matter what some might like to think, the J20 will simply not be available for export no matter who is asking.
Hi I think that is why j31 is out and about to be ready soon for export just like f35 instead of f22
Thank you
I admire the breakout the J-10 was for the Chinese military aviation industry, I really do. But I have to say @plawolf has a good point in explaining why the F-16 was much more preferred in the PAF back then.
Another thing I would add is due to the rather limited loading capability of the J-10 it is not so much of a "one solution" jet a smaller air force like the PAF would go for. They basically want every jet to be able to carry out strike missions decently (not saying the J-10 can't be used for those).
When I saw the typical configuration of J-10s carrying 2 SRAAMs + 2 BVRAAMs + 2 fuel tanks I said to myself "well that is very... basic" (sometimes there's even the weirder 4 SRAAMs + 2 BVRAAMs set). I see similar complaints among Chinese military enthusiasts all the time too.
Another thing I would add is due to the rather limited loading capability of the J-10 it is not so much of a "one solution" jet a smaller air force like the PAF would go for. They basically want every jet to be able to carry out strike missions decently (not saying the J-10 can't be used for those).
When I saw the typical configuration of J-10s carrying 2 SRAAMs + 2 BVRAAMs + 2 fuel tanks I said to myself "well that is very... basic" (sometimes there's even the weirder 4 SRAAMs + 2 BVRAAMs set). I see similar complaints among Chinese military enthusiasts all the time too.
I think if the Chinese exported a Flanker derivative, be it to Pakistan, or anyone else, the Russians would likely throw a fit. At the same time I do not see the Chinese exporting the J-20 at this time either. That leaves the FC-31 getting into Pakistan use and we have heard rumours of it already. I agree that given they already had F-16s that made the J-10 purchase make less sense, especially given the initial specs of the J-10A, but yeah it was a missed opportunity. Especially since the USA started drifting more and more from Pakistan.