J-10 Thread IV

[ougoah]

Turkey SAM deal.(one spoiled by combined nato pressure, because "free" world is so free in its choices)

How was the Turkish SAM deal an example of China refurbishing Russian radars for sale? Are you saying that HQ-9's radar is S-300's just refurbished and placed on market? Because this is almost entirely wrong and as provably so as sensitive military matters can get. HQ-9's systems are probably as similar to Patriot's than it is to S-300's. Does this mean Patriot and S-300 use the same radars?

How so did the copy outperform the original? S-300 failed to hit all targets. HQ-9 did not. That's the difference between someone who scores 100% on an exam and someone who scores 90%. The first person could be miles and miles ahead but all we can see is the 10% difference. Stupid person would assume this 10% difference is all there is.

 

[Hyperwarp]

...
J-10 can't beat even poor little mig-29m in orders, despite all hardships of its produce...

J-10 uses a Russian engine. Plain and simple. Unlike the FC-1 which has no real competition in its category, the J-10 in-contrast has to compete against the MiG-29, F16, Gripen, etc, etc. Until China reliably demonstrates the J-10 with an indigenous engine a foreign buyer will not make a commitment unless the Russians give the "all clear" for the engines. Even then it can be risky if they decide to cut-off engine supplies. Even the FC-1 can have their engines cut-off but for the moment Russia does not have an incentive to do so. With the J-10, they have every incentive to prevent it from being exported. It doesn't matter how good the J-10 might be. No engines, no export.

 

[WestRiver]

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

A J-10 fighter jet attached to an aviation brigade with the air force of the PLA Northern Theater Command lands on the runway after completing a round-the-clock flight training exercise on October 24, 2018.

 

[Deleted member 13312]

First, because no one will ever buy such a lackluster heavy fighter, one which can't even deal with a contemprorary light fighter.

How does the J-10 ever got classified as a "heavy fighter" kilogram for kilogram, it is no heavier than that of the F-16 and even lighter than the Mig-29 at max combat load.

Su-35 has orders despite direct US interference with the deals and open pressure on countries buying it. Even China got its part of this pressure.

Considering how the nations who had bought the Su-35 have such chilly relations with the US they would had bought it just to spite Washington it is less impressive than one might think. Now if a nation like Saudi Arabia that is way deeper in the US's pockets bought the Su-35, that did be something.

Second, because at least someone will try to buy such a world-beating light fighter, which with some tactics not only deals with heavy fighter from an estslished producer, but shuts it down on top of that.
J-10 can't beat even poor little mig-29m in orders, despite all hardships of its producer.

2 things to remember here, one is that most of the Mi-29 sales were made during the 1990s, back when Russia is pretty much starve for cash and would had happily sell just about anything short of national interests and the J-10 haven't even come into existence yet. Between that a West that is not all to willing to dole out the likes of F-16s for sale, most 2nd and 3rd world nations have little too choose from. Fast forward 20 years later, the Mig variants faces extreme competition from the likes of the Gripen and the JF-17.
And it is extremely faulty to rate a fighter's combat performance by it's sales. If that so be the case then the Su-35 would be rated to be just slightly more capable then the JF-17 because insofar the confirmed number of sales both planes netted aren't that far apart (24 vs 20)

3. j-10 carries no "low drag" ew suites at all, and su-35 does. One developed specifically for it. "switching off" worlds' most powerful fighter radar by small internal suite only?

In paper at least, AESA radars are less susceptible to jamming attempts via EW warfare. And how capable the SU-35 EW pods are yet to be seen. Incidentally, AESA radars are also capable of EW jamming on their own, so wingtip pods can be dispense with. At least that is what the F-35 brochures claim.

Either j-10 is a strategic bomber in disguise, or pilot uses daoist magic.

The J-10 is what it is , a multirole fighter. It is not going to beat the Su-35 in terms of payload and range. But maneuverability and electronics wise, the cards are less certain.

4. mobile phones and other parts of radio industry are important, but it is still China buying russian radars and trying to export Chinese developments of
If you think what by producing AESA radar you suddenly turned into raytheon - you got it wrong.

But that is what AESA is all about, the increased immunity from EW jamming , better range and detection. And China had clearly moved beyond what Russia has to offer in terms of radar. For instance China had not only built Aegis type radars (which Russia have no equivalent to), they too have introduced their own integrated dual band radar on the 055 DDG, whereas Russia can only produce such an equivalent by crudely slapping on a different radar on another one.

 

[ougoah]

The photos of J-10 and J-20 today has been of quality.

CAC is getting amazing publicity. These clear J-20 photos coupled with clear TVC J-10

Is the TVC capable engine on J-10 the WS-10G designation? 150KN or so of afterburner thrust. If J-20 uses a pair of these engines, it could have similar T:W as F-22. We don't know how heavy J-20 is for certain but there were claims of extreme weight savings by new production methods. If that is to be believed and WS-10G dry and afterburner are as claimed, then J-20 will have better ratio than F-22. Of course this is assuming weight reductions and WS-10G with dry and afterburner just below F119 which is what some online claim. At worst, J-20 won't be "underpowered" even compared to greatest US fighters and at best, J-20 will be better. Not considering multiple important factors relating to engine performance like reliability, thermodynamic efficiency, and MTBF.

If those other parameters have been improved to match or exceed AL-31, then future J-10 batches and variants will be equipped. TVC could be less useful for J-10 than it is for limiting canard deflection on J-20 to maximise LO. Testing TVC on J-10 could be used to evaluate this cost benefit dilemma. China hasn't ordered any AL-31s for a long time now while J-10 production has been ongoing and now TVC of a WS-10 is tested. Could indicate CAC and PLAAF are more sure of WS-10A/B/G on single engined J-10s in near future.

 

[by78]

20 high-resolution photos of vector-thrust J-10...

 

[by78]

Continued...

 

[by78]

More...

 

[by78]

Last batch...

 

[Deino]

The photos of J-10 and J-20 today has been of quality.

CAC is getting amazing publicity. These clear J-20 photos coupled with clear TVC J-10

Is the TVC capable engine on J-10 the WS-10G designation? 150KN or so of afterburner thrust. If J-20 uses a pair of these engines, it could have similar T:W as F-22. We don't know how heavy J-20 is for certain but there were claims of extreme weight savings by new production methods. If that is to be believed and WS-10G dry and afterburner are as claimed, then J-20 will have better ratio than F-22. Of course this is assuming weight reductions and WS-10G with dry and afterburner just below F119 which is what some online claim. At worst, J-20 won't be "underpowered" even compared to greatest US fighters and at best, J-20 will be better. Not considering multiple important factors relating to engine performance like reliability, thermodynamic efficiency, and MTBF.

If those other parameters have been improved to match or exceed AL-31, then future J-10 batches and variants will be equipped. TVC could be less useful for J-10 than it is for limiting canard deflection on J-20 to maximise LO. Testing TVC on J-10 could be used to evaluate this cost benefit dilemma. China hasn't ordered any AL-31s for a long time now while J-10 production has been ongoing and now TVC of a WS-10 is tested. Could indicate CAC and PLAAF are more sure of WS-10A/B/G on single engined J-10s in near future.

Allegedly WS-10B3 ... and 150kN was never reported, at best 140, at least by my information.