J-10 Thread III (Closed to posting)

[Blitzo]

Lololol, huitong changed J-10B's radar back to AESA again... heh.

Here's what he said when I asked him to clarify on the matter, and which could explain what the two displays in the link in post 98 was:

"The J-10B radar bid had two contenders. 607 Institute presented PESA while 14th Institute presented AESA. It was rumored that 14th Institute won the bid with their AESA design. That picture simply shows the losing PESA design by 607 Institute at some internal exhibition. Similarly, that AESA design shown in the other photo by 607 Institute for J-11B was also on display at the same place. However there has been no confirmation that J-11B has an AESA radar. It is likely that J-11B still features a tranditional PD radar since it entered production a few years earlier than J-10B. It is also possible that J-15 will have an AESA radar, or J-11B will be upgraded later with an AESA radar."

 

[plawolf]

If true, it would be somewhat unusual that 607 Inst would offer an AESA and a PESA at the same time on contracts for different fighters. One would normally expect that if the Inst has mastered AESA tech, they would based all their offerings on that tech and develop a family of radars instead of having a radical redesign from AESA to PESA.

Perhaps 607 was having difficulty downscaling their J11 AESA offering to fit a J10, so it was easier for them to go PESA instead.

If that is the case, AESA on the even smaller JF17 may be a bigger problem in comparisons, and may not be ready for some years yet.

 

[Blitzo]

If true, it would be somewhat unusual that 607 Inst would offer an AESA and a PESA at the same time on contracts for different fighters. One would normally expect that if the Inst has mastered AESA tech, they would based all their offerings on that tech and develop a family of radars instead of having a radical redesign from AESA to PESA.

Perhaps 607 was having difficulty downscaling their J11 AESA offering to fit a J10, so it was easier for them to go PESA instead.

If that is the case, AESA on the even smaller JF17 may be a bigger problem in comparisons, and may not be ready for some years yet.

Wait, it was 14th institute which supposedly won the J-10B's radar contract with its AESA and there's no indication as to whose institute's radar a future JF-17 block will depend on. So if 607 institute can't offer a small AESA for JF-17, then 14th could by downsizing their AESA for J-10B a little.

 

[plawolf]

Wait, it was 14th institute which supposedly won the J-10B's radar contract with its AESA and there's no indication as to whose institute's radar a future JF-17 block will depend on. So if 607 institute can't offer a small AESA for JF-17, then 14th could by downsizing their AESA for J-10B a little.

Maybe I wasn't being clear, in which case please excuse me.

But my point was that if it was such a tough job for 607 Inst to downscale their J11 AESA to fit a J10 that they went with PESA instead, the issues with downscaling AESA seems to be quite considerable, and would be even more difficult in going smaller yet.

That means that even though 14th Inst, the winner of the J10B contract, was able to downscale a AESA to fit a J10, it likely had to overcome significant technical/performance/financial barriers to do so, and there is no guarantee that they would be able to repeat the trick.

In addition, it is my belief that since 14 Inst won the PLAAF J10B contract, it is likely that 607 Inst will now be front runner for the JF17 upgrade contract. Because a) they need the work more and b) 14th may well be too busy with the J10B (and maybe J11 as well, any word on who won that?) radar to spare the time and resources to develop a radar for the JF17.

Looks like the JF17 will have to wait a bit to get it's AESA whether so that 14th could get to it, or so that 607 could develop their tech enough to offer one that small. Either way, it's hard to see there being an AESA option for the JF17 in the next 3-5 years unless another Chinese radar Inst jumps out of the blue and offers one.

 

[Blitzo]

Oh right I see what you mean now.

I wouldn't know about the difficulties of downsizing radars of course, but I imagine if there's already a contract for a JF-17 AESA one could be ready in 3-5 years. I'm sure it's not just a matter of removing a few T/R arrays and lessening the power a little, but if customers are willing to withstand a less powerful radar with a proportionally smaller array.

14th institute's supposedly already got a fair bit of AESA experience, from KJ-2000, J-20 and J-10B (maybe Y-7 AEWC too) -- the fact they have those contracts may work for or against them in a hypothetical JF-17 AESA bid.
38th institute's apparently quite involved in AESA too, with KJ-200, ZDK-03 and even Z-8AEW, I wonder if they'll try a hand at fighter AESAs.

Basically imho it's not impossible for a JF-17 AESA to be on the market in the time you outlined, especially if it was given to 14th (from their track record). And the contract for J-10B and J-11B's radars would've been a while ago, so 607th could've had time enough to ramp up their game for the JF-17 contract too.

 

[hmmwv]

That means that even though 14th Inst, the winner of the J10B contract, was able to downscale a AESA to fit a J10, it likely had to overcome significant technical/performance/financial barriers to do so, and there is no guarantee that they would be able to repeat the trick.

Down scale? AFAIK 14th Institute has concentrated on the J10B AESA from the get go, i.e. 607th Inst is supplying the new AESA upgrade to J11B and 14th Inst won the contract to supply AESA to J10B. I haven't seen any picture proof of the 14th Inst radar though.

 

[challenge]

could it be it has something to do with limited production capacity of T/R MMIC,forcing the J-10B to adapt PESA antenna (temporary)?

 

[i.e.]

That picture was just one of the proposals one side puts up as a solution/

 

[Blitzo]

could it be it has something to do with limited production capacity of T/R MMIC,forcing the J-10B to adapt PESA antenna (temporary)?

Really... this again? >_>

An AESA and PESA was offered for the J-10b's radar. AESA won. end of story.

 

[escobar]

From CDF