Issues/Problems the PLA needs to address

Engineer · Sep 16, 2015

Blackstone said:
To bring it back to the original discussion, I see PLA political commissars as problems and not solutions because they are instruments of the current, non-demoncratically reformed CCP.

Is that your original thought or something incepted into your head by the lame stream media?

Blitzo · Sep 16, 2015

Engineer said:
Is that your original thought or something incepted into your head by the lame stream media?

If we want to get philosophical, I think everyone's opinions are made from their own experiences and what they've seen... no one really ever has a truly "original" thought.

kwaigonegin · Sep 16, 2015

vesicles said:
But that's not the argument about the PLA weakness though. The main argument is that these spoiled kids would turn around and run in time of danger because they have been spoiled. The main logic is that their unique upbringing (the only child in the family) somehow makes them soft and gives them bad character, which makes them cowards on the battlefield. My comments were directed to counter that argument. My point was that these kids, although spoiled, can still be brave in time of danger.

Most of the in-effectiveness exposed in the Tianjin explosion was caused by so many different things that went wrong. None of them was because of the firefighters were the only kids in their respective families. These kids, spoiled or not, had no control over the local/state govn't policies on how to store hazardous materials. These kids, spoiled or not, had no control over their training protocols. My impression is that these firefighters followed their protocols as they were instructed. By all account, they followed their instructions and protocols. The only problem was that the instructions and protocols were not effective. Again, these kids had no controls over these issues, whether they had been spoiled or not...It's not like they had been taught in one way, but they completely panicked and started to do something else at the time of the explosion.

We are arguing about whether being spoiled makes these kids lazy bums, cowards and unruly brats, basically people with bad characters. I think my examples show the exact opposite: they showed their true and admirable character. So in that sense, I feel that my example is appropriate.

no arguments there.. their bravery is to be commanded however it wasn't me who brought up 'lil emperor' thingie lol ... my points was more toward the initial thread subject in regards to prepareness, readiness, lessons learned etc....

Qi_1528 · Sep 16, 2015

I'm not very impressed with the argument about the PLA in particlar lacking "real war experience" in comparison to other militaries. That's the case with the vast majority of armies in the world. Even the USA hasn't fought a war with a peer or near peer military since the Korean war (if you consider the NK military to have been near peer). Technology and tactics have moved on tremendously since then. Ok, the Americans have a lot of experience with wars like Vietnam and Iraq, but this was fighting against non peer enemies, who used asymmetric tactics and strategies for the most part. The lessons learned from those wars won't apply well to a conflict with Russia or China.

I can agree that the US military has some advantage over the PLA with experience, but not as much as many people seem to think.

JayBird · Sep 16, 2015

Blackstone said:
The original poster gave some guidelines on the point of his thread, and followed up with a narrative from his father's experience. It was clear the thread was about all aspects of the PLA, including army culture and structure (i.e,. political commissars). You are free to limit your own posts to military technology, and I don't begrudge it.

You know Equation, I must be somewhere in the middle if some see me as a CCP/PRC fanboi while others see me as a CCP/PRC hateboi.

So, here's a challenge for you... let's have a gentlemen's bet on my claim that I'm more balanced on CCP/PRC issues than you. By that I mean the entire body of my positive and negative posts on CCP/PRC and their actions is closer to the 50% mark than the totality of your posts. Care to take me up on that? We could ask a fair and honorable mod like Jeff Head to judge.

My impression of you: Definitely not a PRC/CCP fanboi nor a China hateboi. But you have a tendency to use provocative words and somewhat inflammatory comments regarding the Chinese government. I don't think it was anything malice on your part but just your style of poking fun at CCP. But sometimes people might take offensive to what your think is a joke as cheap shots at China. As long as yout stay away from the once a while troll mode, I usually like your posts because it's sharp and right on point with no political correctness to it.

As much as Jeff Head is a honorable mod and trying to be fair to everybody. He will see things from an American perspective that other nationalities might not necessarily agree on. So.. it's all subjective depending who you ask.

Blackstone · Sep 17, 2015

@JayBird- to be fair, I'm equally critical of what I believe to be bad US/EU/Japan... policies too, and I don't make a habit of being PC with them. On Jeff Head, you might be surprised he could be very critical of US policies too. Quite frankly, I find his reasoning generally hard to dispute, even if I disagree with his premise and/or conclusions.

solarz · Sep 17, 2015

Blackstone said:
@JayBird- to be fair, I'm equally critical of what I believe to be bad US/EU/Japan... policies too, and I don't make a habit of being PC with them. On Jeff Head, you might be surprised he could be very critical of US policies too. Quite frankly, I find his reasoning generally hard to dispute, even if I disagree with his premise and/or conclusions.

You still haven't answered the question. Why do you believe the PLA being subordinate to the CPC is a problem that they need to address?

Blackstone · Sep 17, 2015

solarz said:
You still haven't answered the question. Why do you believe the PLA being subordinate to the CPC is a problem that they need to address?

I thought I explained that already, but I guess I wasn't clear. My reasons are;

1) I think China will someday become a democratic meritocracy (maybe in 50 years)
2) Before that can happen, the CCP at some point must be placed under the rule of law
3) Unfortunately, CCP elites, plutocrats, and cadre probably wouldn't give up power voluntarily, and they control the army
4) Therefore the PLA (and all its cousins) must transform from a private security force, not answerable to the people, to a national army that is loyal to the nation (nation= whatever government a majority of people elects) and not to The Party

Equation · Sep 17, 2015

Blackstone said:
The original poster gave some guidelines on the point of his thread, and followed up with a narrative from his father's experience. It was clear the thread was about all aspects of the PLA, including army culture and structure (i.e,. political commissars). You are free to limit your own posts to military technology, and I don't begrudge it.

You know Equation, I must be somewhere in the middle if some see me as a CCP/PRC fanboi while others see me as a CCP/PRC hateboi.

So, here's a challenge for you... let's have a gentlemen's bet on my claim that I'm more balanced on CCP/PRC issues than you. By that I mean the entire body of my positive and negative posts on CCP/PRC and their actions is closer to the 50% mark than the totality of your posts. Care to take me up on that? We could ask a fair and honorable mod like Jeff Head to judge.

I didn't know this was a measuring contest of sort. Apparently you've already lost your claim as being "balance" in regards to the CPC or PLA by first posting " I believe Commissars in the Red Army are hatchet men loyal not to the soldiers and officers they "support," but to the Party Chairman and the Communist Party" which has NOTHING to do about the subject of the thread. You didn't even bother to display how the Commissars structural form are a hinderance to PLA chain of command or it's responsibility to the defense of China what so ever other than using propaganda like slogan to boast your distaste for the CPC.

Equation · Sep 17, 2015

Blackstone said:
@JayBird- to be fair, I'm equally critical of what I believe to be bad US/EU/Japan... policies too, and I don't make a habit of being PC with them. On Jeff Head, you might be surprised he could be very critical of US policies too. Quite frankly, I find his reasoning generally hard to dispute, even if I disagree with his premise and/or conclusions.

I'm equally critical of what I believe to be bad US/EU/Japan

You left out the Taiwan current government regime in that sentence. I wonder why.

Issues/Problems the PLA needs to address

Engineer

Major

Blitzo

Lieutenant General

kwaigonegin

Colonel

Qi_1528

New Member

JayBird

Junior Member

Blackstone

Brigadier

solarz

Brigadier

Blackstone

Brigadier

Equation

Lieutenant General

Equation

Lieutenant General