Israeli-Palestinian Conflict and other Related Conflicts in the Middle East (read the rules in the first post)

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
Hmm. They don't need this many just to deal with Gaza. Maybe they're thinking of going after Hezbollah as well, even if Hez don't enter the conflict of their own volition.
Hezbollah alone is not enough for such a drastic draft - they're now rising (170 original +360 + 300) a force approaching 10% of the overall population.
That's an extreme, general mobilization level of society mobilization. Looks like a maximum effort force... probably more as a contingency for the case if Arab/Muslim world will react as a whole. It can.
 

delta115

Junior Member
Registered Member
Mystery of the Trophy System’s performance issue solved. Based on an instruction pamphlet obtained by Israelis forces, HAMAS troops exploited the weakness of Merkava by firing RPG at extremely close range, so close that Trophy doesn’t have time to respond.

View attachment 119867
This will be interesting. Isn't this basically mean Trophy is not so effective in urban environment?

No to mention that instruction is pretty well made for a supposed army of rag tag.
 

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
This will be interesting. Isn't this basically mean Trophy is not so effective in urban environment?

No to mention that instruction is pretty well made for a supposed army of rag tag.
I think we all grossly underestimated the training level of Hamas. Some of them are pulling off stunts comparable to special forces. It seems even average soldiers has detailed training judging from the manual.
 

HereToSeePics

Junior Member
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Registered Member

MOD NOTIFICATIONS - EFFECTIVE OCTOBER 10, 2023

(also reposted on the first page)

The current Israel and Palestine conflict has led to a lot of off-topic and escalatory posts in this World Armed Forces subforum thread due to its polarizing nature and geopolitical ramifications. But it is an important topic to discuss in a civilized manner nonetheless. In order to increase the quality of the discussions, we, the World Affairs (Red) Mods have decided to implement additional rules similar to the ones enforced on the Ukraine War thread:


1. No bringing up China/Ukraine/Russia/Taiwan/use-of-nukes unless there are verified news events.
2. No derogatory statements or generalizations towards any ethnicity or religious groups.
3. No statements celebrating or glorifying death and destruction. No posts of media showing human death or gore.
4. No moral grandstanding. The thread immediately goes out of control whenever someone tries to portray one side as the poor victim.
5. No emotional or outrage rants.
6. Back and fourth statements directed at another member and begins with "You..." generally results in escalation and should be avoided.
7. Stick with news and ongoing developments
8. Do not reply to posts that break these or main SDF forum rules. Report it and we will address the concerns.


Sincerely,


The World Affairs Mods
 
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TK3600

Major
Registered Member
So yesterday I listened to a podcast by Wojciech Szewko and I will make a short summary because I found it very relevant and informative.

He is a specialist in international relations with a focus on jihadism and Middle East. Unfortunately his commentary is available only in Polish because he is not a media person. He worked in government institutions including as an advisor to the PM of Poland, and was associated with Polish social democrats (SdPL/SLD). He also knows Arabic so he can draw on local sources.

You can translate the webpage to see his credentials:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

I always pay attention to what he has to say, because he always brings an interesting perspective, especially since 2015 the media narratives in Poland have gradually shifted to replicate American and British propaganda. Even if I disagree on something I found him to be always helpful and constructive.

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1. CONFLICT

There are two dimensions of the conflict involving Israel:
  • religious - between Islamic world and Judaism supported by Evangelical Christianity with the Al-Aqsa mosque being the primary element
  • secular - between Israel and Palestine focused on statehood and nationhood of Palestinians
The secular dimension is of secondary importance and is only used by actors who see religious motivations as too inconvenient or dangerous e.g. secular regime in Egypt. The religious dimension is the primary driver of the conflict as far as involvement of Gulf countries and general Muslim population worldwide is concerned. The religious dimension and jihad in general is a tremendous business venture that jihadist organisations capitalise on.

The business model is selling jihad which is best understood as a contemporary analogue to medieval crusades, not the initial Arab conquests. It is a recapture of Muslim holy land taken over by infidels.


2. ISRAEL

Israel's primary interest is secular
and its core institutions - both government and military/security are secular in nature. The religious aspect of Zionism has only recently emerged as a leading force due to the fallout of the political and demographic evolution of the country over many decades. It will only become more prominent over time as birth rates are falling except in the religious demographics.

Religious interest is full displacement of non-Jewish population and transforming of Israel into a monoreligious regime. The recent scandal with Haredi spitting on Christians is an example of the mentality.

A major problem is the recent judical reform which put Israel's Supreme Court under the control of Knesset giving the minister control over personnel which until recently were protected from political intervention by the Supreme Court. This means that "secular" personnel in military/intel can be replaced by "religious" personnel. Revisionist Zionism (Likud) is "secular". Religious Zionism (Shas etc) and Jewish Supremacism (Otzma Yehudit etc) are "religious". This is new left-right paradigm which replaced the former based on Labour vs Revisionist Zionism.

Minister of Justice responsible for the reform - Itama Ben-Gvir (Otzma Yehudit) - is widely hated and will be used as a scapegoat by Netanyahu (Likud) who has a personal stake in avoiding prosecution.


3. HAMAS

Hamas is a Islamic jihadist organisation first, and Palestinian nationalist organisation second
.

The codename of Hamas' operation is "Al-Aqsa flood" thus framing it primarily in jihadist terms.

Hamas has been created by Mossad to undermine secular Fatah/PLO and that stigma still persists in the broader Muslim/Arab community even though Hamas has been independent since late 1980s/First Intifada. Nevertheless until the Second Intifada there was an unspoken cooperation between Israeli intelligence and Hamas as both sought to diminish Fatah's influence which was seen as the greater threat. Hamas is the textbook case of "blowback" - see CIA and Al-Qaeda.

Hamas desperately seeks a "founding myth" for its organisation due to its history and that is sufficient to provide justification for risk associated with open warfare. Al-Aqsa flood provides that founding myth.

Hamas' attack is the greatest failure of Israeli security as in no previous war has territory of Israel been under control of enemy forces.


4. BRUTALITY


Since 1967 it can be objectively stated that Israel is a brutal occupying force that engages in systematic and deliberate ethnic cleansing of Palestine. Motivations or temporary adjustment of attitude are irrelevant. This is the general unchanging trend and it increasingly finds support among the population which demographically evolves from Labour Zionism through Revisionist Zionism to Religious Zionism/Jewish Supremacism.

The brutality of IDF occupation forces is not significantly different from the actions of Hamas but it is framed differently by Israeli and American propaganda. For example the practice of desacrating bodies of the dead is used by both sides, although they choose different methods for optics e.g. they refuse to return bodies to families as "punishment".

Israel deliberately uses cultural and psychological methods of oppression against Palestinian population as a whole on a much larger scale because of constraints on physical violence imposed by external actors. That malice is largely unknown in the west due to limited insights and propaganda.


5. CIVILIANS

Hamas officially does not condone attacks on civilians. However an important detail is overlooked in Israeli propaganda in the west.

All settlers are provided by weapons by Israeli government and since settlements on territory captured after 1967 are illegal all settlers are considered by Hamas to be militants.

Similarly all settlers on territory captured in 1948 and annexed into Israel in contravention of UN charter are treated in the same manner and Israeli population in those territories are treated as militants as they inhabit illegal territory and are provided with weapons by Israeli government.

Hamas identifies "occupied" by expelled population, not legal borders. Any home belonging to expelled Palestinian is "occupied".

Additionally Hamas considers the universal conscription affecting both men and women to be a nullifying element. The defense doctrine of Israel is one of total defense.

As far as Hamas is concerned in Israel there are no "civilians" in the western understanding of the term. Israel deliberately distorts that fact and presents armed settlers and reservists as equivalent to civilians who never served in the military and are unarmed.


6. MOTIVATION

The motivation for the attacks is religious and cultural. The militants fighting in jihad are treated as heroes among the radical Muslim population. Jihadists have fundamentally different motivation for fighting than secular Israelis and western rationale can't be applied to it.

Heroic death is a motivating factor for religious and impoverished populations and Hamas provides material support for families.

The only religiously motivated Israelis are exempt from military service.

Hamas has objective interest in promoting the "martyrs" while Israel has interest in limiting information of casualties.

Military censorship in Israel affects all aspects of Israeli society and media and is constantly fought by civic organisations. In terms of security policies Israel is much closer to a military regime than a western democracy.


7. PROPAGANDA

Hamas propagandised its actions widely to incite an uprising in all Palestinian territories.

The gruesome nature of the content is deliberate and aimed at population that suffers similar brutality and depredations from occupying forces and settlers. It is meant to provide a sense of empowerment and trigger anger and violent reactions by showing Israel as weak.

Hamas failed to gain broad response and Fatah may be responsible for that failure but that may change as IDF enters Gaza.

Responses from other Muslim countries were largely muted but that may also change over time as more and more propaganda materials reach circulation and IDF enters Gaza.

Israel deliberately attempts to limit the spread of Hamas' narrative as mass unrest in Palestine and other Muslim countries is its greatest fear. However the focus of Israelis is on changing the narrative to deny "heroism" which is the motivating factor.

Israel understands that they have no ability to influence the perception in Muslim countries so it bombards western countries with propaganda, troll networks in social media to balance it.

Russia and Ukraine have also involved themselves in it but they are largely external factors that are trying to capitalise and react respectively.

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Hopefully this helps.

Also:

Whichever moderator read my analysis of Judaism as an ideology and saw "broad racial stereotypes". You are the racist to make that association.
Great write up. Would love to hear more from him.
 
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