Israeli-Palestinian Conflict and other Related Conflicts in the Middle East (read the rules in the first post)

MarKoz81

Junior Member
Registered Member
Israel/Judea ceased to exist as a sovereign entity after the destruction of the 1st Temple. Since then it had always been a foreign province, direct vassal of non-Jewish/Israeli/Judean/Israelites, contrary to the comment I was responding to which said along the lines of "Israel will prevail cuz Heaven's Mandate".

"Israel" that is Samaria ceased to exist as a sovereign entity in 722BCE. "Judea" that is Judah ceased to exist as a sovereign entity in practical sense at the same time as it was forced to pay tribute but formally it ceases as its own kingdom in 570BCE. Judea - correctly: Iudea - is the Roman name of the historical region of Judah i.e. Yehud.

"First temple" is the "temple of Solomon" which is a Biblical location never confirmed by archeological data to have ever existed in Jerusalem - not during the time of alleged united kingdom, not before, not later. While it is likely that some temple existed on temple mount and at some point it would have been devoted to Yahweh (definitely during Josiah's rule) the Biblical Solomon's temple is an invention of Babylonian diaspora used to legitimize the temple of Cyrus that is the "second temple" of Yehud Medinata which as a province including both historical Judah and Israel and treating them as a single entity for the purpose of customary governance.

The notion of "Israel will prevail" is a Zionist bastardisation of the religious notion of messianic revival of Israel understood as the "twelve tribes" of which Judah is only one. That revival - according to Biblical principles - must happen as a religious revival and not a political one and it will be completed by the restoration of the covenant with god.

And I can't believe you are actually writing 'Israel established as a secular regime' when it is entirely built upon Zionism which is a religious concept, not forgetting it's various other religious statutes.

"Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past" [George Orwell]


Once Israel was established following the armistice of 1949 the notion of Zionism as the first successful experiment reframed everything that Jewish community understood about returning to Eretz Israel. Because Zionism worked by formally establishing Israel as a state everything that referred to it was retroactively described as "Zionism".This is why the traditional concept of the rebuilding the temple and thus restoring original form of Judaism - as opposed to Rabbinical Judaism which lacks its core priestly ritual - was reframed as "Religious Zionism" even though it was part of traditional Judaism. That is obviously the aim of Zionists who want to monopolise Jewish identity for their own purposes. It's a common practice in politics to rewrite history to rationalise and legitimise incidental success and in this case Zionism and Judaism are mutually exclusive. It's not obvious at first but try to be Jew and oppose Zionism and see what happens. At the same time you don't need to be a Jew to be a Zionist.

The reframing worked because there was nobody to counter that trend. European Jews were dead and American Jews were largely assimilationist and liberal thus lacking the traditional background. Israel as a state actor could also apply much greater resources to promoting its views than non-state actors. It's the same as with socialism - once Lenin captured Russia he turned its resources to eradicating competing socialist doctrines. Marxism-Leninism is "not Marxism" but it was not possible to win against the firehose of falsehood run from Moscow.

Zionism was created as an explicitly secular ideology. Theodor Herzl did not circumsise his son. He was a Germanophile and an assimilationist who despised "Jewish" identity as defined by Judaism which is why he uses a different name for his movement.

Herzl also viewed Zionism as vehicle of his personal influence and status. He wanted to create a Jewish state to establish himself and his family as part of its ruling elite. He also always supported removal of native population from whichever territory was assigned for Jews - including his Uganda proposal for temporary Jewish state.

Zionism may seem to some as a religion but that's only because they can't tell the difference between a religion and a cult. Judaism is a religion. Zionism is a cult.
 

9dashline

Captain
Registered Member
I personally disagree with this notion that Israeli nukes are of any significance in the ultimate result. I think once the other side gets nukes, the goal will be complete sanitisation and depopulation of that entire apartheid nation inside out & worldwide ,even if that means stone cold nuclear winter. Deterrence is no longer a viable factor or even in the picture.
The world has to come to terms with that either there can be human race or there can be US, Israel. There can't be both. At this point, We need to consider complete, irreversible, permanent solution for this 2 cancerous problem world has been facing for over a century.
Deagel 2025
 

_killuminati_

Senior Member
Registered Member
but israel exists today as they were thousands of years ago...where are those empires of long ago that conquered israel?
Yes the temples were destroyed since AD70 because it belongs to an old covenant after Christ. The temple serves no purposes- again Heaven's mandate
Heaven mandated twice to destroy the temple, humiliate the Israelis and Jews, and send them into exile to wander. For what? 1) According to the scripture, for their iniquities and rebellion; 2) According to the historical record, for their rebellion. In other words, "Israel will prevail [this time]" is a flawed concept. I see you are a Christian Zionist, the exposition of which is beyond all logic.

Babylonians are in Iraq today, Assyrians in northern Iraq, Seleucids are Greek and all over Levant, Egyptians are in Egypt, while the original Israelis, Judeans, and Israelites are Christians and Muslims of Levant. Israel of today is the non-Semitic Ashkenazi of Europe and random folk from around the world claiming to be from Levant.


that is your presumption....
yes israel will face existential threat one last time at the battle of armageddon...but it will survive when the messiah returns to destroy the invaders lead by russia.
Invaders from Russia already came to the Holy Lands to cause corruption. They are known as Ashkenazim. John Hagee won't tell you that. Genesis accounts in the Bible mention it explicitly: 1) Ashkenaz is from Japheth; 2) Gog Magog ("invaders from Russia") are cousins of Ashkenaz; 3) Japheth reside in the tents of Shem (i.e. Ashkenazi in Palestine). John Hagee can't tell you this either.



"Israel" that is Samaria ceased to exist as a sovereign entity in 722BCE. "Judea" that is Judah ceased to exist as a sovereign entity in practical sense at the same time as it was forced to pay tribute but formally it ceases as its own kingdom in 570BCE. Judea - correctly: Iudea - is the Roman name of the historical region of Judah i.e. Yehud.

"First temple" is the "temple of Solomon" which is a Biblical location never confirmed by archeological data to have ever existed in Jerusalem - not during the time of alleged united kingdom, not before, not later. While it is likely that some temple existed on temple mount and at some point it would have been devoted to Yahweh (definitely during Josiah's rule) the Biblical Solomon's temple is an invention of Babylonian diaspora used to legitimize the temple of Cyrus that is the "second temple" of Yehud Medinata which as a province including both historical Judah and Israel and treating them as a single entity for the purpose of customary governance.

The notion of "Israel will prevail" is a Zionist bastardisation of the religious notion of messianic revival of Israel understood as the "twelve tribes" of which Judah is only one. That revival - according to Biblical principles - must happen as a religious revival and not a political one and it will be completed by the restoration of the covenant with god.



"Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past" [George Orwell]

Once Israel was established following the armistice of 1949 the notion of Zionism as the first successful experiment reframed everything that Jewish community understood about returning to Eretz Israel. Because Zionism worked by formally establishing Israel as a state everything that referred to it was retroactively described as "Zionism".This is why the traditional concept of the rebuilding the temple and thus restoring original form of Judaism - as opposed to Rabbinical Judaism which lacks its core priestly ritual - was reframed as "Religious Zionism" even though it was part of traditional Judaism. That is obviously the aim of Zionists who want to monopolise Jewish identity for their own purposes. It's a common practice in politics to rewrite history to rationalise and legitimise incidental success and in this case Zionism and Judaism are mutually exclusive. It's not obvious at first but try to be Jew and oppose Zionism and see what happens. At the same time you don't need to be a Jew to be a Zionist.

The reframing worked because there was nobody to counter that trend. European Jews were dead and American Jews were largely assimilationist and liberal thus lacking the traditional background. Israel as a state actor could also apply much greater resources to promoting its views than non-state actors. It's the same as with socialism - once Lenin captured Russia he turned its resources to eradicating competing socialist doctrines. Marxism-Leninism is "not Marxism" but it was not possible to win against the firehose of falsehood run from Moscow.

Zionism was created as an explicitly secular ideology. Theodor Herzl did not circumsise his son. He was a Germanophile and an assimilationist who despised "Jewish" identity as defined by Judaism which is why he uses a different name for his movement.

Herzl also viewed Zionism as vehicle of his personal influence and status. He wanted to create a Jewish state to establish himself and his family as part of its ruling elite. He also always supported removal of native population from whichever territory was assigned for Jews - including his Uganda proposal for temporary Jewish state.

Zionism may seem to some as a religion but that's only because they can't tell the difference between a religion and a cult. Judaism is a religion. Zionism is a cult.
Afaik, jew as an ethnicity is a later Israeli adoption, developed partially as a result of the failure of scriptures to support a foundation of Israel without a Moshiach. Herzl was atheist of a Jewish background, employing the religious ideology of Zionism (tactic) to forward his colonial agenda. Most Jews of his time, especially the Ashkenazi, accepted Eretz Israel (and traditional Zionism) as their migration to Western Europe and US. But Israel as a state is still based on religious foundations (the tactic), as are much of it's laws.

____________

Interesting set of secondary explosions. Like a machine gun firing.
 
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Index

Senior Member
Registered Member
NEW: At least 492 have been martyed and 1,645 wounded in Israel's strikes – Lebanon Health Ministry

For comparison: That's almost half the TOTAL casualties from the entire 2006 war.

@Middle_East_Spectator
Lebanon also firing back a ton of missiles at settlements.

BTW it's somewhat mindfuck that the week long bombing from Israel did about as much as that 1 Russian strike in Poltava did in a few minutes. If you think about it, the scale of conflicts are really quite something different.

Middle East has really become a sandbox as of recent times, a far cry from when the powers in the region used to be world contenders back during caliphate and ottoman era.
 

JJD1803

Junior Member
Registered Member
The biggest problem is the presence of nukes in Israel arsenal... multiple would have gone on the offensive without these.
I have a sinking feeling Israel will break the nuclear taboo and go out in a cataclysmic bang. The leaders of Israel are led by insane messianic men. And the populace are bloodthirsty fascists. This all going to end in ugly fashion.
 

Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
I have a sinking feeling Israel will break the nuclear taboo and go out in a cataclysmic bang. The leaders of Israel are led by insane messianic men. And the populace are bloodthirsty fascists. This all going to end in ugly fashion.
Clearly if they are against the wall, they will bring a lot of middle east with them. It's insane to think about but it's the way with nuclear powers. Would the US deny the ballistic missiles launched by Israel submarines with their SM6 ? If they do that they will gain huge popular vote...
 
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