Israeli-Palestinian Conflict and other Related Conflicts in the Middle East (read the rules in the first post)

drowingfish

Junior Member
Registered Member
Let's put the 4 pillars in practical terms.

A: propaganda to amplify might
B: intel
C: preemptive strike
D: total destruction (of enemy capability to fight)

Neither seems helpful now. They lost C, they are only on reaction. D is all thats left on the playbook.

This is a typical playbook of a regime that only considers grand victory, never consequnce of failure. There is no deescalation, damage control, preserverence. Only "If I gamble more I can turn this around". Very similar WWII Japan and Germany.

Whats in for D? Escalate for total destruction of enemy? Enemy will do the same to them! Why would enemy return to status quo if Israel fail, just so Israel can try total destruction again? Israel caused severe damage to their home, should they let Israel go home intact to rebuild with advantage? The logical conclusion is for victor to somehow disarm the aggressor for "total destruction", militarily and economically.

Here is why total destruction is stupid. If they lose, the consequence is severe. So it better have very high certainty of success. But if they have strength for high chance of total success, there is no need to escalate into total destruction in first place. Enemy will either not initiate, or back off after initial failure. So the reality is total destruction is only relevant when chance of success is not high. This is what makes it stupid. They are gambling fate of nation on a war of high difficulty, high consequence of failure. Reward for winning is mediocre at best.

In conclusion, Israel didnt think this through, and refuse to. This is a reciepe for disaster. If Israel go for D, it better have total victory, or risk severe punishment. The catch is it is impossible without many years of high intensity combat. Something Israel never had experience of. It was always a series of short but intense combat, or long but low intensity anti terror mission. This is something they did not prepare for. If they try for this option they will find out the hard way what total war actually is.

Most country avoid total war for very good reasons, to say the least.
correct, israel's line of thinking is likely that we are never going to get to mobilize like this ever again, might as well take all that we can. problem is hezbollah is likely ready by now, and the israeli forces are likely exhausted with no significant reserves available to rotate.
 

enroger

Junior Member
Registered Member
Hezbollah will very likely retreat under severe bombardment, but they will not stop shooting. IDF only can claim a symbolic win when at least getting a ceasefire. They will get no more symbolic win than early WWI Germany push into small portion of France. They are stuck there and enemy is still shooting back!

I seriously doubt the effect of aerial bombardment on a force that is prepared for it. Dispersion, years of tunnel digging and underground stockpile of supplies...etc
 

_killuminati_

Senior Member
Registered Member
  1. total waste of effort: If Israel is committing this much resource and time, what are they getting? A small piece of illegally occupied territory? It is a total waste. The strategic objective is to neutralize Hezbolah, not waste resources for tiny piece of land. If Hezbolah is not neutralized, they just bashed their head on the wall for no meaningful change!
You cannot cure a disease by treating the symptom. If Hezbollah is neutralized, another group will take it's place.

The strategic objective is to routinely create carnage in the territories of unfriendly neighbors, so they don't ever get powerful enough to challenge Israel on Israeli territory. Seems to have worked well for Israel (to keep it's territorial integrity mostly intact).

The real tragedy for Israel would be if Hezbollah or other groups exhaust IDF and push the war into Israel's borders.
 

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
You cannot cure a disease by treating the symptom. If Hezbollah is neutralized, another group will take it's place.

The strategic objective is to routinely create carnage in the territories of unfriendly neighbors, so they don't ever get powerful enough to challenge Israel on Israeli territory. Seems to have worked well for Israel (to keep it's territorial integrity mostly intact).

The real tragedy for Israel would be if Hezbollah or other groups exhaust IDF and push the war into Israel's borders.
Then it will never work. It assumes the local economy supports war effort. It can get foriegn stocks. Hezbolah can launch rockets on Israel at any time regardless of whether IDF is invading.
 

_killuminati_

Senior Member
Registered Member
Then it will never work. It assumes the local economy supports war effort. It can get foriegn stocks. Hezbolah can launch rockets on Israel at any time regardless of whether IDF is invading.
Hezbollah is already launching rockets into Israel (as has Hamas and Houthis), but the level of damage incurred in Israel from foreign missile attacks isn't as serious as would incur from an external invasion, and is quickly repairable. For example, if Israel suffered even ⅕ the damage Gaza did, then it would be significant and worth reconsidering.
 

nemo

Junior Member
Hezbollah will very likely retreat under severe bombardment, but they will not stop shooting. IDF only can claim a symbolic win when at least getting a ceasefire. They will get no more symbolic win than early WWI Germany push into small portion of France. They are stuck there and enemy is still shooting back!

Scott Ritter is claiming that if IDF attacks Hezbollah now, it is likely to lose Northern Israel. IDF is losing badly against Hamas already, taking casualty of around 5000, while not making a dent against Hamas, which is dug in and attack by surprise. Hezbollah, in the mean time, is clearing out Israeli intelligence assets and blew up equipments worth hundreds of millions of dollars which cannot be replaced easily if at all. If Israel try anything, it will operate blind.

He claims IDF is not simply not that good, as it is composed mainly of reservists -- which is why it is running up such a high casualty against a force (Hamas) that has so much less firepower. Hezbolla, in contrast, is a bona fide army with heavy weapon, unlike Hamas.
 

_killuminati_

Senior Member
Registered Member
Hezbollah doesn't, however, have the land advantage that Hamas has. Southern Lebanon isn't a concrete jungle like Gaza; sparsely populated, lot of open area for maneuvering.
 
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