ISIS/ISIL conflict in Syria/Iraq (No OpEd, No Politics)

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
The Usefulness of aircraft to such a group should never be underestimated. They may actually be using them not for kamikaze runs but for actual strike missions. However that has to be confirmed. Additional ISIS aircraft are likely to still be wearing Syrian military markings that can confuse matters. If a coalition aircraft encounters a ISIS bird the ROE has to be followed and if the ROE says leave Assad alone and the Birds look like Assad's things get confusing.

At this point all we have is Rumors, we have it coming from multiple sources but until conformation from a intelligence agency that yes they have a baby air force. Its all unsubstantiated claims that could be total bunk. And as such is not actionable. If however it is confirmed. I would lay money down that the Israelis would bomb the hell out of what ever air base its being launched from. Despite the anti Israeli propaganda they consider Isis a threat and if ISIS has a air force and they believe that they want to try and pull off one way strikes. Then the Israeli Air Force would start hunting and have no qualms about knocking down few Syrian birds that get in the way.
 

Zool

Junior Member
Another point to remember is that IS is a predominantly Sunni organization. There are many Sunni in Iraq who became disenfranchised after the toppling of Saddam and rebalance of power toward the Shia majority. I'm sure there are more than a few qualified pilots, perhaps former military of the Saddam era, who have joined the IS cause and are able to pilot the aircraft in question.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
The Usefulness of aircraft to such a group should never be underestimated. They may actually be using them not for kamikaze runs but for actual strike missions. However that has to be confirmed. Additional ISIS aircraft are likely to still be wearing Syrian military markings that can confuse matters. If a coalition aircraft encounters a ISIS bird the ROE has to be followed and if the ROE says leave Assad alone and the Birds look like Assad's things get confusing.

At this point all we have is Rumors, we have it coming from multiple sources but until conformation from a intelligence agency that yes they have a baby air force. Its all unsubstantiated claims that could be total bunk. And as such is not actionable. If however it is confirmed. I would lay money down that the Israelis would bomb the hell out of what ever air base its being launched from. Despite the anti Israeli propaganda they consider Isis a threat and if ISIS has a air force and they believe that they want to try and pull off one way strikes. Then the Israeli Air Force would start hunting and have no qualms about knocking down few Syrian birds that get in the way.

You are right, for all we know, all these stories of IS fighter jets is total BS, planted to lay the groundwork to push to impose a no fly zone over Syria on the grounds that IS jets are still wearing Syrian colours.
 

thunderchief

Senior Member
I can believe Iraqi pilots have joined with ISIS. I don't believe they can train to fly anyone unless they've had some training before to be pilots. What fighters seen on TV said to be in possession of ISIS all look like single-seaters. How are they going to manage to train them with those? Beside I don't expect those pilots they have now to be living long if they take to the air.

Well, actually, obtaining flight license for light prop aircraft is relatively easy . Islamists already did that preparing for 9/11 attacks, and you could do that practically in any country in the world . Next step would be dual-controlled jet trainers. Bit problematic for ISIS but they allegedly have one L-39 . Finally, you would need dual seat conversion trainers like Mig-21 UM , but if you intend to run crash course (no pun intended ;) ) you could skip that step and go straight to solo .
 

shen

Senior Member
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This is good news. Helps are finally getting to this group of Communist fighters. This can also be interpreted as Americans applying more pressure on Turkey by bypassing Turkish border control to supply arms to PKK affiliates in Syria, arms that can be turned on Turkey later. Turkey was just bombing PKK last week btw. Turkey is presumably just allowing fighters from of their Iraqi Kurdish ally KDP to go to Syria, to dilute the influence of YPG/PKK.
 

delft

Brigadier
Ambassador Bhadrakumar on this matter:
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US, Turkey part ways over Syria


President Barack Obama’s strategy in the fight against the Islamic State in Syria gets considerable clarity with the 4-line announcement by the US Central Command that American military aircraft have made multiple drops of weapons, ammunition and medical supplies to the Kurdish fighters defending the northern Syrian city of Kobane facing the Turkish border.
In sum, Washington has parted ways with Ankara. Obama telephoned President Recep Erdogan on Saturday and discussed “steps that could be taken to counter” the IS offensive against Kobane. Presumably, he took Erdogan into confidence about the need to arm and support the Kurdish fighters in Kobane.
But Erdogan stuck to his guns and on Sunday reiterated that Turkey considered the Syrian Kurdish group [PYD] as every bit a “terrorist organization like the Iraqi Kurds belonging to the PKK”. He took a tough stance: “It would be very wrong for America — with whom we are allies and with whom we are together within the NATO — to expect us to say ‘yes’ after openly announcing such support for a terrorist organization. It [US] cannot expect such a thing from us and we cannot say ‘yes’ to such a thing either.”
Erdogan also parried on the pending issue of Ankara making available Turkish air bases on the Syrian-Iraqi border for the US operations. He said, “What are they [US] asking for with regard to Incirlik [air base]? That’s not clear yet. If there is something we deem appropriate, we would discuss it with our security forces and we would say ‘yes’. But if it is not appropriate, then saying ‘yes’ is not possible for us either.” (Hurriyet).
Suffice to say, Obama made a last-ditch attempt to carry Erdogan along, but the endeavor failed, and he has since left the Turkish leader behind on his own.
To be sure, the Kurdish fighters in Kobane are in dire straits and US supplies have become vital. Time is of the essence of the matter.
But there are political dimensions, too, to Obama’s decision to arm the Syrian Kurds. One, Obama has openly rejected Erdogan’s notion of the Syrian Kurds being ‘terrorists’ who allegedly enjoyed the covert backing of the Syrian regime.
Two, Obama is unwilling to link the fight against the IS with the Turkish agenda of ‘regime change’ in Syria. Three, Obama disfavors Erdogan’s pet idea of creating a ‘buffer zone’ and a ‘no-fly zone’ in Syria from Aleppo northward to the Turkish border.
Indeed, Obama is wary of getting entangled with Erdogan’s pipe dream of riding the wings of Arab Spring and bringing about a democratic transformation of the Middle East spearheaded by the Muslim Brotherhood — under Turkish tutelage, of course.
Broadly speaking, the above put together would suggest that Obama is finessing his Syrian strategy to one of containment of IS in immediate terms rather than getting into grandiose plans of seeking political settlements in Iraq and Syria. (See my blog Crunch time for Obama in Syria.)
But the interplay of the above three dimensions will still impact the future developments in a major way. The open US backing for the PYD (which is no doubt allied with the PKK and is fighting Turkey, US’ NATO ally) will resonate all over the Kurdish homelands in Iraq, Syria and Turkey and could give fillip to the Kurdish national aspirations of self-determination. That is to say, Ankara may soon have to grapple with a resurgent Kurdish insurgency.
The bottom line is that Turkey is having to pay a heavy price for its dubious role in fomenting the civil war in Syria over the past 3-year period and for its covert support of the IS in particular. In last week’s bid for the ‘European seat’ in the UN Security Council, Turkey suffered a humiliating defeat ending with just 60 votes. Turkey’s regional and international credibility has hit rock bottom.
Obama would see that an overt Turkish military role would trigger disquiet in the Arab minds, given the huge backlog of Ottoman history in the region’s collective consciousness. However, the most important point here is as regards Obama’s game plan for the Syrian regime. Evidently, he has so far neatly sidestepped the Syrian regime and has gone for the IS.
The ‘missing link’ here so far has been the Iran nuclear deal and the removal of sanctions against Iran, which will open the way for a US-Iranian effort to seek a political settlement in Syria in a near future.
Meanwhile, the US-Iranian dealings over Iraq have ‘matured’ over a relatively short period of time already starting with the efforts to replace former Iraqi prime minister Nouri al-Maliki. Iraq became a test case of the efficacy of US-Iranian cooperation over issues of regional security and stability. And it stands to reason that the US is increasingly viewing Iran as a factor of stability in Iraq.
Interestingly, in Iraq the US is not being prescriptive about the exact composition of an “inclusive” government. If at all, the latest appointment of a Shi’ite politician from the Badr Organization to the post of Interior Minister in Baghdad and the visit by the Iraqi prime minister Haider al-Abadi leading a high-powered delegation to Tehran later today would suggest that Iran’s influence in Iraqi affairs has if anything only increased.
All in all, therefore, aside the profound symbolism of Obama’s decision to arm the Syrian Kurds even at the cost of annoying Turkey, he could be “dialing back” his Syria strategy, realizing that any escalation of US military action against the Syrian regime is fraught with the danger of triggering “chaos and unintended consequences” and, therefore, a political element, which is non-existent today, is ultimately needed.
It is only Iran that could provide that non-existent political element kickstarting a political settlement in Syria — not Turkey, not Saudi Arabia, not even Russia. The recent Iranian statements at different levels of leadership (Irna, FNA) would suggest that Tehran is positioning itself to play such a role in Syria.

Posted in Diplomacy, Military, Politics.

Tagged with Arab spring, Iran nuclear issue, ISIL, Kobane, Kurdish problem, Syria's civil war.

By M K Bhadrakumar – October 20, 2014
 

delft

Brigadier
The next blog by Ambassador Bhadrakumar:
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Erdogan blinks on Syria - until November


Whether the US intelligence was eavesdropping on Turkish President Recep Erdogan’s plane when he held forth strongly against any American move to supply arms to the Kurdish rebels in Kobane, we will never get to know. At any rate, President Barack Obama called him no sooner than the plane landed in Istanbul on its flight from Kabul.
What we know for sure by now is that the last weekend offered a case study of what ‘coercive diplomacy’ is all about. As the senior Turkish editor Murat Yetkin put it, when the announcement by the US Central Command that such supplies have taken place filtered into Ankara Monday morning, “the news was like a cold shower.” (Hurriyet).
Erodgan promptly blinked and then put a brave face on it by claiming Turkey too is indirectly helping the Syrian Kurds [PYD] battling the Islamic State in Kobane. But Yetkin is right, the Turkish policy has gone haywire.
From this point, the advantage lies with the Obama administration if it wants to make its regional allies to fall in line and not mess around anymore in Syria.
From the White House briefing, the following things emerge. First and foremost, US is focused on degrading and defeating the IS in Kobane and is unwilling to mix it up with the Syrian question as such. Second, with or without Turkey — but by far preferably with Turkey (and US tried at various levels in the recent weeks to carry Erdogan along) — US will continue to help the Kurdish fighters in Kobane; ideally, the supplies could be sent across the border from Turkey.
Third, Turkey’s concerns over resurgence of Kurdish nationalism are understandable, but on the other hand, the enemy in immediate terms is the IS and Washington and Ankara “face a common enemy.”
Fourth, US’ dealings and coordination in Kobane with the PYD has reached such a point that the latter may even be calling in US airstrikes — that is to say, a tie-up like in Afghanistan with the Northern Alliance militia in October-November 2001 is available (in essence, American air strikes empowering the local forces fighting on the ground).
In the end, Erdogan salvaged some ground by the decision to allow the Iraqi Kurdish Pesherga fighters to transit through Turkish territory to join the PYD cadres in Kobane. This is a shrewd move, as the Iraqi Peshmerga is infiltrated by the Turkish intelligence and its leadership benefits out of Turkish munificence and Turkey would now have a “fifth column” inside the PYD ranks in Kobane.
Does it mean, Erdogan is now going to toe the line from Washington? Far from it. He’s biding time for the congressional elections in November in the US to get over, and if the US senate also changes hands, Obama will come under immense pressure to co-opt the Turkish agenda of ‘regime change’ in Syria as an integral part of the fight against the IS.
Erdogan’s hopes aren’t entirely misplaced, ether, as the speech by the Republican senator John McCain yesterday at the Pacific Council on International Policy at California forewarns.
Make no mistake, Erdogan’s Syria game plan as such hasn’t changed, as this commentary at the Middle East Research Institute outlines. What we see in the Turkish riddle is truly an interplay of dilemmas, risks and limitation.

Posted in Diplomacy, Military, Politics.

Tagged with Arab spring, ISIL, Kobane, Syria's civil war.

By M K Bhadrakumar – October 21, 2014
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
I think Turkey is doing the right thing here

Why should it be Turkey who leads the ground invasion or fight ISIS on the ground? Where is everyone else why push Turkey forward to take the casualties while the rest just use so called "air power"

No this is not Turkey's problem alone and Turkey should certainly not get involved in this campaign

If country's and Obama want Turkey to get involved first get 150,000 US boots on the ground pay for the transport for the Turkish troops and fund the whole campaign

Erdogan is doing the correct thing and if Western country's don't pay for this campaign then don't expect Turkey to pay or loose any soldiers

Also I totally support Erdogans decisions not to allow use of the Incirlik Air Base by coalition air craft, unless they dramatically increase landing and rent payments for these aircraft and pay for the extra costs associated with housing aircraft

Turkey is one of the most powerful NATO members so NATO better get involved and not leave this issue to to Turkey alone
 
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