ISIS/ISIL conflict in Syria/Iraq (No OpEd, No Politics)

Delft I think you may have missed the point.
Russia and China already have the know how to make Soft kill APS. Infact I said the Russian T90 Already has a system that does the same Job only it's not compatible with the Older tanks. The Russian Shtora system found on versions of the T80 and T90.
Same for the west. Soft kill systems have been available for a number of year in front line national militaries the M1 Series of Tanks for example have used the AN/VLQ-6 Missile Countermeasure Device.

Iran has yet has not or at least has not shown the ability to, Although they claim there next version of the Zulfiqar will have some form of APS Hardkill, Iranian Claims are well... Unreliable at best on a lot of things.

This conflict has been unique in that SACLOS have seen exceptionally widespread proliferation and not Just TOW but Russian, European and Chinese. It's really put Tanker Boots to the fire.
Also done other oddities. Like the Ghosts of World War 1 we have seen Chemical weapons attacks, Makeshift tanks and armored assaults
Undermining war, Siege War, Blitz Krieg, Trench war, Urban war, Drone War, Air War, Stealth war, missile war.
I wouldn't be surprised if we heard about a Horse mounted Cavalry charge tomorrow followed by a battle of Phalanx.

Infantry fighting single shot muskets to the latest in modular combat carbines to stones.
with everything from digging tunnels to fill with makeshift bombs to Suicide vests, to drones strikes
Aircraft from piston engines to turboprops to Jets to Stealth.
Smart bombs, Dumb bombs, Barrel bombs, Car bombs, Donkey bombs,

I mean this reminds me of the war on the Planet Skaro From Dr. Who, Where a War Started no one could remember why and it kept going and by the end a millennia later you had Kaled and Thals fighting each other with everything from futuristic lasers to bows and Arrows and the only thing that came from it are the mutated refugees, and the Daleks mutants in mini tanks with a superiority complex a hair trigger and a drive to conquer.

From AMN:

US Air Force aids Syrian Army, Russian military liberate Palmyra
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- 04/03/2017

BEIRUT, LEBANON (10:20 A.M.) – For the first time during this six year long Syrian Conflict, the U.S. and Russian air forces coordinated to aid the Syrian Arab Army (SAA) in their quest to liberate Palmyra (Tadmur) from the Islamic State (ISIS) terrorist organization.

U.S. warplanes conducted several raids over the eastern countryside of Palmyra these past two weeks, hitting a large number of Islamic State targets along the Sukhanah-Palmyra Road.

These airstrikes by the U.S. Air Force in east Palmyra helped the Syrian Arab Army and Russian military retake the city by cutting off their vital supply route.

Both the Russian and U.S. commands have yet to comment on their coordination above the skies of ancient Palmyra; however, there has been some acknowledgement from local activists on both sides.

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This looks like a significant development. See also from Ambassador Bhadrakumar

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Also from AMN:

Syrian Army and Kurdish coordination strengthens as food enters Manbij district
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- 04/03/2017

A convoy of food and supplies from the Syrian government has entered the Kurdish-controlled areas of Manbij province, according to Al-Masdar’s correspondent, Yusha Yousef.

Yousef suggested that the convoy may have contained ammunition and other equipment as the Kurdish People’s Protection Units (YPG) gear up for the expected battle with Turkish-led forces.

The Turkish military, predominately Turkmen battalions of the Free Syrian Army and Islamist allies, collectively known as Furat Shield, have made their intentions of taking the Syrian Democratic Force (SDF), who comprise mostly by the YPG, held town of Manbij.

“After the liberation of al-Bab from Daesh [ISIS] terrorists, Turkey’s new target in Syria is Manbij. Manbij is a city which belongs to Arabs, and the SDF must also not be in Raqqa,” the

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.

Yousef also explained that the Syrian Army may start using SDF-held areas as staging grounds to launch offensives against ISIS, if it is deemed necessary to use these areas.

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and

Syrian Army deployed to areas held by Kurdish-led forces in rural Aleppo
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- 04/03/2017

Sergei Rudskoi, Head of the Russian General Staff’s Main Operations Department, has said that the Syrian Army have deployed in areas controlled by the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF).

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by Al-Masdar’s Yusha Yousef that the Syrian Army may start using SDF-held areas as staging grounds to launch offensives against ISIS, if it is deemed necessary to use these areas.

This statement by Rudskoi is a confirmation that the Syrian Army have begun using SDF-held areas in the Aleppo countryside.

“In accordance with the agreements reached with the participation of the Russian air group command in Syria, Syrian armed forces units have been deployed to the territory held by the Kurdish self-defense forces on March 3,” Rudskoi said.

The Manbij Military Council earlier announced an agreement had been reached with the Russian side on transferring villages west of that city located along the line of contact with Operation Euphrates Shield that involves the Turkish armed forces and Syrian opposition units to the Syrian government border troops, TASS reported.

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as I've said, I'm pulling out, will just finish several stories though:

(now the one which was probably less believed than other)
Jan 9, 2017

Jura said:

...
the ISIL defense tactics is simple:
while keeping ISIL losses as low as possible, inflicting as heavy losses as possible to the Iraqis storming Mosul, so VBIEDs are optimal; of course there's a problem of attrition

...

and ISIL assumption is it'll be Iraqi units still willing to fight

...

who will get attrited ... recently the Iraqis suffer around 200 KIAs daily this way ...

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while now like independent (?) source claims more than ten thousand Iraqis KIA during the first two moths of this year (I think the part shown in yellow (4290) is Army, the part in blue (6137): Militias, Military Police):


10463/(31+28) = 177.3390

(would be weird to round this ... but I don't mean to be cynical)

TerraN_EmpirE said:

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Okay This is interesting, Just as we have seen the Syrian rebels, IS, AQ, Free Syrian and whoever else and more up armor anything that moves, So to the Syrian Regime has had to counter the proliferation of ATGMs. Now bing big users of Older Soviet Tanks They took losses to The TOW missile systems that the rebels used. remember before the War and even now the T90's are the least numerous tanks in the SAA,The majority are older models like T54, T55, T62, T72 variants. Now the Russians Introduced a active defence system into the T90 to counter optically guided missiles like the TOW or ( "Tube-launched, Optically tracked, Wire-guided) The Russian Saxhorn-2 (Metis M) and Spandrel missiles, but that system is not compatible with the older Tanks.
So the Syrians were in a bit of a Jam. Fortunately for them it seems The Rebels are such a hodge podge that Syrian intelligence bought some of those Tow missiles from the Rebels and then reverse engineered their own Soft kill system Sarab-1. It apparently uses a IR LED to try and spoof the shooter into missing the tank.
Have to admire the ingenuity. Of course this likely means that in coming years similar systems will be reverse engineered by lesser nation states with some degree of indigenous military industry like Iran and North Korea as the Syrian regime is in no position to mass produce such systems without help or that data getting passed on.

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I am not familiar with TOW. My question is can the Tank detect that it is aimed by a TOW launcher? The Russian counter system is hard kill missiles. Wouldn't it better to use a laser to blind the optics of the TOW or its operator to defeat tracking? Laser reacts almost instantly.

taxiya said:

I am not familiar with TOW. My question is can the Tank detect that it is aimed by a TOW launcher? The Russian counter system is hard kill missiles.

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The Shtora system is soft kill not hard kill. Hard kill systems more expensive and the Russians only developed a few types the older Drozd system of the 70's but was more or less abandoned. Arena it's successor has been integrated into T90 and Some other tanks. one problem the russian Hard kill systems have is they are incompatible with Reactive armor so you have no fall back in the event of a fail.
The Advantage of a Soft kill system is that it diverts the missile away, The disadvantage is when you are dealing with a ballistically guided system. The Advantage of a Hard Kill system is it destroys the missile regardless of guidance, the disadvantage is there is a substantial risk to infantry around the protected vehicle as they often use explosives and projectiles

Wouldn't it better to use a laser to blind the optics of the TOW or its operator to defeat tracking? Laser reacts almost instantly.

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Blinding is a no no by international convention. the main goal is to decoy. As if you blind the missile it's still moving far faster than the tank could so getting the missile to go off somewhere elses.

There are reports the SAA has reached Lake Assad on the Euphrates. They are expected to push south to engage ISIS out of Deir Hafta next.

flyzies said:

There are reports the SAA has reached Lake Assad on the Euphrates. They are expected to push south to engage ISIS out of Deir Hafta next.

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Yes they have and dare I say, pretty much as I anticipated they would - to create food and water security for Aleppo City rather than launch attacks on Major enemy urban strongholds like Dier Hafir or Al Bab.

link to recent map here

Syria War - Syrian Tanks in Heavy Fighting with Rebels GoPro 1080p

Great development.

BTW, why the thread becomes quieter when the good time finally come?