ISIS/ISIL conflict in Syria/Iraq (No OpEd, No Politics)

asif iqbal said:

How could you plan a foreign country entering your air space for 30 seconds?

If you are warned, if you are warned again and again and fail to follow protocol you must pay the price as Russia did

Turkey has full right to down any aircraft flying in its air space even Russia

And judging by the comments from Erdogan he will do it again

Click to expand...

hmm, if all the five nuclear countries act like what Turkey did that you defended, there is no planet earth today.

incursion of another coutry's territory is wrong, but Turkey is surely over acting this time.
And since Turkey has been funneling fighters and supplies into Syria for years, I expect you should have pointed your finger at Turkey.

Miragedriver said:

I agree! However, we must ask ourselves a question. Which is why are the Turks so trigger happy. What do they have to gain by conflict with Russia, or dragging NATO into a conflict? Interesting question.


Back to bottling my Grenache

Click to expand...

The Turks have been very patient, this incident has been repeated over and over, so while Putin is no doubt mad, he does have a little respect for Mr. Erdogan now. Turkey is very well equipped and trained, belittle them at your own risk. Aircraft inbound, warnings sent, radar lock, more warnings sent, green light and take them out? that's the way it goes in big-boy world.

Air Force Brat said:

The Turks have been very patient, this incident has been repeated over and over, so while Putin is no doubt mad, he does have a little respect for Mr. Erdogan now. Turkey is very well equipped and trained, belittle them at your own risk. Aircraft inbound, warnings sent, radar lock, more warnings sent, green light and take them out? that's the way it goes in big-boy world.

Click to expand...

Is it worth the US going to war with Russia over a 30-second violation of Turkish airspace? That's the direction it could head.

asif iqbal said:

The F4 was a recon aircraft over Mediterranean

It was shot down without warning by a SAM

Turkey sent a fighter up which engaged in air combat, that is the way professionals do the job

Russia entered it got what it asked for, if you don't want to loses jets don't enter turkish air space

This is not Crimea where people are going to advertise more training and excercises this is real game

Click to expand...

I see you only replied my last sentence which was clearly ment to be about battle field performance, not political justification.

Anyway, I will answer your comment.

What you said in this post about the F4 incident is the Turkish version, right? I don't judge its creditability, just lay down the fact. But remember there was a Syrian version back then too.

The Su-24 incident today also has two versions from both sides, right?

I see which version you instinctly take and make judgement based on it. For that reason, I see no point for us to continue further exchange on this matter.

The Turkish government told Russia several times to keep out, and even announced straight up that any more violations would result in direct military response, the Russians continued to violate the airspace of Turkey. The Turks reacted as they had indicated.

The Russians have to decide for themselves if they feel that they are in a position to justify reprisal for the Turks not backing down or if its better to cut a deal.
The current Obama administration is very unlikely to back military action, and is more likely to push negotiations.

I think we in this forum have to leave the "her word vs. his word" as we probably would never know the truth, and focus on the possible development of this incident and its implication to the fight against ISIS.

I found this piece of news.

Regardless the authentity of the news itself or the quatition it makes from Russians, It looks to me like a teasing act (here is a little tip, I have more in my sleave) to link Turkish government and the terrorists. This is what I have mentioned some posts back that making such link is an indication of the next Russian move, or a pressuring act for some kind of deal.

Now, let's see the response from Turkey. I don't expect a direct deny but I rather expect there is behind-door play around this linking matter.

continue to post #2611,
From my understanding of the news in veteranstoday.com, the Russian PM did not spell out any names.

I have read from other souce that states that the Russian opositions' leader Liberal Democrat and Communist pointed their fingers at Bilal Erdogan, son the the Turkish president, claiming him being the middleman of the ISIS oil trade.

I think this serves a good perpurse,
1. If the whole thing goes to a setisfactory end to the Russianss this naming accusation can be swipt away as it is not the official accusation. In the extreme case, Bilal Erdogan would have to be secrificed, saving his father, but still a blow to the president's reputation.
2. If the whole thing does not go well, the accusation can turn to be official and escalate.

A very well calculated move by Mr. Putin as a chess player. It also shows the unity among the whole Russian political spectrume which indicates the strong support that Mr. Putin has back home. That is essential to his handling of this incident and the whole campain in the long run.

Turkey contacted the fighter plane asked it to turn south and issued a warning

This is not Crimea or Georgia

You ignore warnings you pay the consequences

Turkey is a professional and responsible power

It did what it said it was going to do, they never hide behind NATO they didn't ask for NATO help they didn't run to NATO

They warned they acted simple as that and they are 100% correct on that

If Russia deploys S400 Turkey has missiles they can launch from a safe distance to take them out if they harass turkish Air Force