Is there any possibility of an EU-style union or arrangement between China, Japan, and South Korea in the future?

The European Union was formed out of a desire to avoid future war and also because of rapproachment between France and West Germany. Before any supra-national organisation could be formed in East Asia, you'd need people to put their historical grievances and mutual suspicions aside, which would be very hard given China and South Korea still highlight Japan's crimes and their humiliation as a key part of their history teaching in schools, and Japan downplays those topics.

Also, the EU's current systems wouldn't work because they have QMV on many issues, which would mean China would automatically win votes on issues by itself due to its population size, and have an in-built majority in any East Asian Parliament. Every issue would require unaniminity, which might work with just three countries but would still lead to tensions when just one country didn't like an idea.

AssassinsMace said:

I know a white female who knows Japanese and spent a number of years living there. She tells me I should go visit Japan... Then she tells me, "Oh yeah they hate Koreans!"

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[South] Koreans don't feel much differently towards Japan.

On the Japanese side, only 20 percent said they had favorable feelings toward South Korea, the lowest mark since the survey began in 2013, while a record-high 31.7 percent of South Koreans said they had favorable feelings toward Japan.

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Although I'd question how much Japanese and Koreans "hate" each other. It probably depends on the word you use. Like the difference between "dislike" and "I want to see all of them die in a nuclear explosion right now".

Hendrik_2000 said:

for all their bravado Japan is still occupied land

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So who are the rightful residents of Kagoshima, Itami and Sendai?

ansy1968 said:

Hi Gatekeeper,

The US will argue that they were there to prevent any conflict between SK and JAPAN.

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Arguing? They are not arguing! They are insisting!

Mr T said:

Hendrik_2000 said:
for all their bravado Japan is still occupied land

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So who are the rightful residents of Kagoshima, Itami and Sendai?

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The rightful residents of these cities are certainly Japanese. What is your point? The residents of these cities did not change from 1947 onward. There were US soldiers stationed in Japan before and after 1947, the Japanese foreign policy was and still is following US. Japan would NOT have regained its "sovereignty" if it had refused allowing US boots on Japanese soil.

So now tell us what is occupation in your dictionary. To avoid a sensational argument that may upset people, we (you specifically) should avoid picking up the dirt by putting forward an untenable argument against the reality.

The worst nationalism is in Asia. Getting a bunch of nationalists together is like herding cats. I'm for peaceful co-existence but I'm not going work at it. If you want peace, I want peace. If you hate me, I'll hate you back.

I'd rather be Chinese than anyone one else and not because I think Chinese are superior. I have plenty of criticism about Chinese and Chinese culture. Obeying the US isn't the answer when all they want is literally absolute control of the world. Someone has to counter the US and keep them in check and I don't see anyone else in a position to do that. Everyone talks about the difficulties of "getting together". There's a simple solution where the world can at least head towards that direction and China is in a position to do that and that's beating the US. When the US is no longer controlling the world economy, countries will start ignoring the US because they no longer have the money. That's why you see the US worried China will be an alternative from them in the world. The US wants the world to think people want to be allied with them because their values are what the world most wants. No, it's as simple as they have money other countries want. If that weren't the case why is Trump's platform the world is robbing the US? Americans complain that immigrants don't assimilate. I thought the world wants to be just like them... Even they ultimately believe it's not about their values that people around the world want and it's just propaganda. Asian countries are generally sycophants. Meaning they will suck up to whoever has the power. The US is always lying about how China's ultimate goal is turning everyone into being Chinese. If that were the case why is the US's main argument for the world not taking AIIB money is because the Chinese don't force conditions like the West does? Isn't forcing countries to be like China the ultimate of conditions? Their propaganda contradicts. They don't want a bunch of independent countries out there that they don't control hence why they're against China's One Road One Belt. Why didn't they beat China to the punch? They already were ignoring these countries because they saw them as worthless and they weren't going to invest money into something they see as not giving them a return. Trump won office because he wanted to see the world burn and destroy international organizations because he didn't want another country even allies to have a say and Americans voted for that.

The US is worried that the world is going to suck up to China like the world is sucking up to the US today.

taxiya said:

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The rightful residents of these cities are certainly Japanese. What is your point? The residents of these cities did not change from 1947 onward. There were US soldiers stationed in Japan before and after 1947, the Japanese foreign policy was and still is following US. Japan would NOT have regained its "sovereignty" if it had refused allowing US boots on Japanese soil.

So now tell us what is occupation in your dictionary. To avoid a sensational argument that may upset people, we (you specifically) should avoid picking up the dirt by putting forward an untenable argument against the reality.

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I feel you are wasting your time in this one. It is a loss cause. He lives in an alternative universe.

I think everyone knows what an occupation nation is. It looks, it smells and it acts like one. Then it is one. No matter who sits on the Celeste throne.

He, of all people should've known that. After all this is exactly what Japan did to Manchuria. Oh sorry, I meant an independent, not an occupied country called manchko! Lol

When looking for analogies, it is important to look beyond the superficial aspects and understand what makes something the way it is.

I suspect the creator of this thread looked at the EU and thought, hey here's this group of countries that used to fight each other and now don't, why can't other countries also follow this model?

What the OP likely didn't consider was WHY the EU countries no longer feel the need to fight their neighbors.

Take UK and France for example. Why don't these former adversaries feel animosity for each other anymore?

Here's an analogy. Suppose there are two competing restaurant chains called McMuffin and Croissant King. They would open up stores in the same areas and compete for customers. If McMuffin runs a promotion, Croissant King would be to respond with a sale of their own. If Croissant King puts up some fancy new menu item, McMuffin would need to put up a fancy item as well. If one store closes, then it means more business for the other.

Now imagine a billionaire called Uncle Sam comes and buys majority shares in both of those companies. Do you think McMuffin and Croissant King would still be competitors? Look at KFC and Taco Bell.

The EU countries no longer feel the need to fight each other because they no longer control their own destinies. The French will never fight against the British because the USN would never allow it. This reality trickles down to the civilian level who invents all these hippy reasons to make themselves feel better about their vassalage.

Right now, SK and Japan are vassal states of Uncle Sam, so they will always be at the forefront of any tensions with China. This will never change until China pushes US influence out of the area.

solarz said:

Right now, SK and Japan are vassal states of Uncle Sam, so they will always be at the forefront of any tensions with China. This will never change until China pushes US influence out of the area.

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And once it does, China will own the majority stakes in a unified Korea and Japan, and they all lived happily ever after. This story is so excellent that China has a historical responsibility to make it a reality.

taxiya said:

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Oh, he was referring to US military bases in Japan. I thought he was talking about Japan occupying "Chinese" islands or something.

It's the same with South Korea.

At the end of the day, if South Koreans and Japanese people really want US forces out they are free to vote for parties at the national level that will do that. But even if they don't like it at a local level, they tolerate it nationally because they privately accept it's necessary.

solarz said:

Take UK and France for example. Why don't these former adversaries feel animosity for each other anymore?

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Probably because they were allies from around 1850 onwards, fighting a war against Russia and two world wars on the same side. The last time France and the UK were enemies was 1815.

That said there is still ill-will between France and the UK, partly over Brexit and partly because the UK has a more laissez-faire economic policy whereas France has put more stock in regulations, and each feels threatened by the other's preferred way of doing business. Between 2010 and 2015 France was pushing very hard for restrictions on the ability of the UK's financial markets to access those in continental Europe on the pretext that the UK wasn't in the eurozone. In reality, France was seeking to make the City of London less competitive.

Of course feelings between Britons and the French is nowhere as bad as attitudes in East Asia towards neighbouring countries.

Right now, SK and Japan are vassal states of Uncle Sam, so they will always be at the forefront of any tensions with China. This will never change until China pushes US influence out of the area.

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If South Korea and Japan were fairly united in opposing China's influence in the region, you might have a point. But given the negative feelings between Koreans and Japanese, and even the posturing from their governments, it suggests that US influence is secondary to national desires.

solarz said:

Right now, SK and Japan are vassal states of Uncle Sam, so they will always be at the forefront of any tensions with China. This will never change until China pushes US influence out of the area.

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This is essentially what I said a few post back. All the time US is in the neighbourghood, a EU style east Asia ain't going to happen.

Also, if and when US leaves the neighbourghhood, it means China must have risen so much, US influence have waned. This also means EU style institution would not be necessary as China alone is akin to a EU style institution. And in this case, the two east Asian countries would want to joint forces with China economically (not politically). A bit like the EEC rather than EU.

Mr T said:

Oh, he was referring to US military bases in Japan. I thought he was talking about Japan occupying "Chinese" islands or something.

It's the same with South Korea.

At the end of the day, if South Koreans and Japanese people really want US forces out they are free to vote for parties at the national level that will do that. But even if they don't like it at a local level, they tolerate it nationally because they privately accept it's necessary.

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So it's comprehension issue. Ok we give you that.

If you are serious about Korea andcjaoan got a choice of choosing to kick out US. Via the ballot box. Then you're showing yourself for all the members that you're very naive indeed. So I was right, you do live in a different world from the rest of us.