If they wanted to they could also nuke China back to the stone age, but why would they do that?
Is the US shooting itself in the foot by banning Huawei?
- Thread starter AndrewS
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Equation
Lieutenant General
If China wants, it can seal off rare earths to all these countries in retaliation and collapse their tech industries immediately.
Look at your delusion here, staring down the fact that China has more advanced telecom technology than anybody but still attempting to retreat to your safe place by imagining a situation where China is still helpless.
"If they want" is as funny a precursor as it gets. Nobody wants to be behind and the US certainly wants to stay ahead of Huawei, so it's a given; there is want. But the last time the US tried the petty route, attempting to cut off chips to stifle competition, it led to China having its own superior supercomputer chips in a year.
So play the cut off game. I really want to see that happen and these companies throw away all their market share in China to have Chinese rivals take it over and surpass them before the employees they have to lay off even get the last of their severance pay.... and then they can cry about trade imbalance haha.
They could also just kill every brown person on the planet ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. I mean look at what happened to the natives. Now there's no one to complain or remember that history.
If China wants, it can seal off rare earths to all these countries in retaliation and collapse their tech industries immediately.
Look at your delusion here, staring down the fact that China has more advanced telecom technology than anybody but still attempting to retreat to your safe place by imagining a situation where China is still helpless.
"If they want" is as funny a precursor as it gets. Nobody wants to be behind and the US certainly wants to stay ahead of Huawei, so it's a given; there is want. But the last time the US tried the petty route, attempting to cut off chips to stifle competition, it led to China having its own superior supercomputer chips in a year.
So play the cut off game. I really want to see that happen and these companies throw away all their market share in China to have Chinese rivals take it over and surpass them before the employees they have to lay off even get the last of their severance pay.... and then they can cry about trade imbalance haha.
I couldn't help but notice undue hubris in posts such as these in this thread. No one disputes China's geopolitical power, but the fact remains that on the semiconductor/computer/telecom battlefront it is not in a position of power when facing the West. China is easily 10 years behind the West in its capacity to independently manufacture semiconductor components. While it has decent fully home-brewed CPU designs, they are still far from being competitive. And the one's that are competitive (Huawei) owe that to access to IP from companies like ARM and cutting edge manufacturing from foundries like TSMC. Don't think that it takes just a year to come up with a competitive CPU design. These things take half a decade from start to actual product. While TaihuLight was an impressive system in 2016, it has been thoroughly eclipsed by Summit and Sierra last year. And that's for LINPACK. For the somewhat more real-world benchmark, like HPCG, it is only on the 7th spot in the TOP500 list. For these mega size computer systems, the interconnect technology is equally important as their arithmetic prowess.
Don't get me wrong, I think Huawei has great 5G IP and if it cooperates with governments in Europe to assuage their cybersecurity concerns I don't see a reason why they shouldn't be allowed to participate in the 5G equipment market and compete with the likes of Qualcomm, Nokia and Ericsson.
(I don't think he gets it) Dude like what we were saying. The only way you're gonna prevent China, India, Southeast Asia, Middle East, and all of Africa from catching up in 20 50 100 200 years is if you kill them all. World doesn't revolve around yours or any individual's lifetime. Even North Korea will catch up or get destroyed.
Even if the West (and future China/India) actively prohibits other powers from rising, they will still catch up unless you kill them all.
Even if the West (and future China/India) actively prohibits other powers from rising, they will still catch up unless you kill them all.
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Equation
Lieutenant General
The undue hubris is with you. What was stated is that actual course of events, which is that China is ahead and accelerating faster in the telecoms industry and your answer was an out-lash response with an imaginary situation to attempt to restore your own safe-place of a helpless China. There is no country out there working as hard as China to get ahead and stay ahead and while every country has its weaknesses (and of course you have correctly outlined China's current basic weaknesses), no country is progressing as quickly as China to address them all, and that is what the US fears most: a China without weaknesses. And Uncle Sam is starting to struggle in a very ugly way highly reminiscent of desperate declining powers because it sees this future on the horizon.
Make no mistake about supercomputers; China is very much ahead. Summit and Sierra are essentially copies of each other that debuted with much less performance and much later than they were intended to. Sierra is simply a match for Taihulight, not nearly "eclipsing" it, despite being much newer. China is not interesting in incremental improvements on systems like that or they could have copied and enhanced Taihulight several times as well to push it into the 200-300+pf range but China is far ahead pursuing exascale systems and quantum computing. When you saw Summit and Sierra rise to the top rankings, you saw American desperation to put on a show reminding the world that the US isn't completely defeated yet with China glad to let them tout that horn because as of recent, China has looked very overpowering and intimidating in the world, a bit much for its own good.
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
Undue hubris aka the pride police. The people who hide behind freedom want to police thoughts because that's what it is?
A few years ago China wasn't even on the list of leading countries working on AI. Now China is up there beating the US. How many years behind was China behind back then? So how did China catch up beating all other countries. Whatever the reasons, that's how China catches up. Thinking that China can't do anything without the US's permission is hubris. Thinking that the world needs the US while the US doesn't need the world is hubris. Are we surprised there's another something that when Americans do it, it's not a crime?
Confidence is an essential ingredient to innovation and invention. So no wonder why people think the Chinese are over-confident and they should be checked. If it's undue then what's to be concerned about? It's the Chinese that would look like fools in the end. But instead the alarms bells are going off...
A few years ago China wasn't even on the list of leading countries working on AI. Now China is up there beating the US. How many years behind was China behind back then? So how did China catch up beating all other countries. Whatever the reasons, that's how China catches up. Thinking that China can't do anything without the US's permission is hubris. Thinking that the world needs the US while the US doesn't need the world is hubris. Are we surprised there's another something that when Americans do it, it's not a crime?
Confidence is an essential ingredient to innovation and invention. So no wonder why people think the Chinese are over-confident and they should be checked. If it's undue then what's to be concerned about? It's the Chinese that would look like fools in the end. But instead the alarms bells are going off...
It’s a bit of a deadlock.
China has the technical capability to make the chips themselves, but it’s not very cost effective compared to outsourcing those to the US.
The state is ok with this “dependency” because US itself needs materials only China can effectively refine to make those parts.
There is a tacit agreement that if China doesn’t start pulling away factories, US will not research refinement. That way, they effectively prevent electronics santions on each other.
But of course Trump has to go upset the balance.
Now China is slowly pulling back it’s factories
back home, and US is sure to follow with rushing refinement technologies.
I don’t think this will lead to problems on either side. Both countries are advanced enough to figure out the stuff fairly fast on their own.
The real problem is that it opens up possibilities for more devastating and wide ranging sanctions and further divides the American and Chinese technology branches.
China has the technical capability to make the chips themselves, but it’s not very cost effective compared to outsourcing those to the US.
The state is ok with this “dependency” because US itself needs materials only China can effectively refine to make those parts.
There is a tacit agreement that if China doesn’t start pulling away factories, US will not research refinement. That way, they effectively prevent electronics santions on each other.
But of course Trump has to go upset the balance.
Now China is slowly pulling back it’s factories
back home, and US is sure to follow with rushing refinement technologies.
I don’t think this will lead to problems on either side. Both countries are advanced enough to figure out the stuff fairly fast on their own.
The real problem is that it opens up possibilities for more devastating and wide ranging sanctions and further divides the American and Chinese technology branches.
Hmmmm ,I would put Huawei getting its ban overturned at 50/50 maybe less because of the stance of
Andrew Hampton the head of NZ's GCSB.He went out of his way to dampen speculation that clearance of Huawei 5g technology in Britain would not necessarily have the same effect in NZ.Futhermore he said he was in the security business, not politics or foreign affairs and was not concerned about damaging China NZ relations through his decisions. He also added that the UK's trust in Huawei was falling.
Perhaps someone living in the Uk can tell me if BT is still going to continue the process of ripping out Huawei gear.?
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Jura The idiot
General
oh after
#312 Jono, Yesterday at 7:36 AM
#323 localizer, Yesterday at 10:43 PM
#312 Jono, Yesterday at 7:36 AM
there's killing Indians
#323 localizer, Yesterday at 10:43 PM
so what's next for this thread, let me guess ... shipping slaves from Africa, and for Europe ... burning witches at stakes?
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