Is the US shooting itself in the foot by banning Huawei?

Faithlock said:

Yes, just 2 hundreds years ago. One Unequal treaty beget another and another, ...

You can't sign the first one.

China has a lot of other options to retaliate. What is Xi so afraid of?

60B tiered tariff increase is a joke. Worse yet, it starts on 6/1. It is nothing proportional about it. To a guy like Trump, when he see weakness, he jumps and doubles down. This is going to get ugly really quick.

Right now, Wall Street is completely confident that China (or really Xi) will cave in. That is why it is up by 230 points now.

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China has not really a lot of good options. We should not be naive.

Xi is so afraid that he is sending a beautiful letter to trump.

Faithlock said:

Yes, just 2 hundreds years ago. One Unequal treaty beget another and another, ...

You can't sign the first one.

China has a lot of other options to retaliate. What is Xi so afraid of?

60B tiered tariff increase is a joke. Worse yet, it starts on 6/1. It is nothing proportional about it. To a guy like Trump, when he see weakness, he jumps and doubles down. This is going to get ugly really quick.

Right now, Wall Street is completely confident that China (or really Xi) will cave in. That is why it is up by 230 points now.

Click to expand...

At the end of the day, you cannot force someone to trade with you. The US could decide tomorrow to cease all trade with China, regardless of any consequences, in which case "retaliatory" tariffs become meaningless. As it is, China's tariffs are designed to specifically target Trump's voter base.

When you have a belligerent trading partner intent on browbeating you to submission, the best option is to decouple.

Hendrik_2000 said:

I don't think SMIC and Jianhua situation are the same . SMIC has the design and the production facilities are complete, done They have been producing chips for many years I bet they stock up on parts for their production facilities
They have extensive Semi FAB all over China. And has all kind of chip design from RF chip to memory chip IoT, industrial and car chip

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I was not talking about SMIC IP. I was alluding to their dependency on foreign suppliers to equip their fabs. That industry is dominated by US, Japanese and European companies. The supply chains for these manufacturers are quite complex and often include US companies even for products manufactured say in the EU.

Finally, it is extremely easy to start a mobile phone company.

Since Qualcomm doesn't sell mobile phones. It only sell chips. They need as many companies buying their chips as possible. So they build this thing call "Reference Design" for every one of their chips.

If you want to start a new mobile phone company, they will provide the reference design for you. They will provide a tech assistant (who are probably much more knowledgeable than anybody in the new mobile phone company) and walk you through everything.

The following is a link to the reference design to the Snapdragon 855 5G phone.


Anybody can downloaded it.

Faithlock said:

Yes, if US really want, it could kill Huawei.

It is not going to stop there unless China (or more importantly, Xi) willing to retaliate. So far, US is giving China left jab, right jab. China responds by love tab.

At this minute, Wall Street is up by 230 points even after the Huawei news is out. It is expecting China to accept the "Unequal" treaty.

Time for Xi to stand up.

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Yes, China response have been so weak. China does not seem to know what to do really.

Fear of pain !

Faithlock said:

Yes, just 2 hundreds years ago. One Unequal treaty beget another and another, ...

You can't sign the first one.

China has a lot of other options to retaliate. What is Xi so afraid of?

60B tiered tariff increase is a joke. Worse yet, it starts on 6/1. It is nothing proportional about it. To a guy like Trump, when he see weakness, he jumps and doubles down. This is going to get ugly really quick.

Right now, Wall Street is completely confident that China (or really Xi) will cave in. That is why it is up by 230 points now.

Click to expand...

Tariffs are hurting its own people in a way. That's why China is so hesitant to do it. It takes a while for consumers to find substitutes.

The way I see it, China won't cave-in to external pressure into changing the way it runs its economy. Any kind of agreement will not include the changing of what China calls its principles.

vincent said:

Can't beat Huawei with the entire national power at its disposal, resorting to these kinds of dirty tricks 下三流手段

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So? If China had this kind of entiere national power at its disposal, china would use it also. We should stop making those type of comment.

Quickie said:

Tariffs are hurting its own people in a way. That's why China is so hesitant to do it. It takes a while for consumers to find substitutes.

The way I see it, China won't cave-in to external pressure into changing the way it runs its economy. Any kind of agreement will not include the changing of what China calls its principles.

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We are in the middle of a trade war. In any kind of war, you have to take casualty to achieve your objectives. Trump is willing to do that. Xi is not. I am not asking for escalation, I am only asking for proportional response.

Trump is taking initiatives. He is determining the time, the place and the degree of the battle. Therefore, he is doing things that will hurt China the most while having the minimal negative consequence to US. Xi is returning with love tabs.

Wall Street and US economy is not feeling whatever Xi is doing. That is too bad, since China can do so much more.

escobar said:

Chinese leaders have capitulated when it comes to the ongoing trade and tech war!

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based on what?

Max Demian said:

I was not talking about SMIC IP. I was alluding to their dependency on foreign suppliers to equip their fabs. That industry is dominated by US, Japanese and European companies. The supply chains for these manufacturers are quite complex and often include US companies even for products manufactured say in the EU.

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Their FAB is up and running and SMIC is a Chinese company they are not following Trump order Thye might have problem sourcing spare part for their fab if their supplier refused to service them due to embargo But as I said before they must stock up spare parts.

Worst come worst they will reverse engineer whatever part that they need China has a lot of experience facing technical embargo and everytime they prevail
It is not like China has no equipment supplier They do have in every category they are not the best but they do have So in the long run they will replace all the imported equipment with domestic one
Even the 7nm lithograph will be soon available

It is too late now to browbeat China into submission 10 years ago yeah that is possible