Iran claims to down US stealth spy drone

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Advanced modern UAVs like this have many back up and redundancy features in place for things like loss of communications. If contact was lost with the ground station, the drone is almost certain to be programmed to fly automatously to a pre-set set of co-ordianates, which would be haves well outside of Iran, and could easily be near a US military base or signals station to maximise the chance of re-establishing contact and recovering the drone intact.

With modern digital frequency agile communications equipment, even detecting and effectively being able to jam it would require cutting-edge signals processing equipment and software that may or may not even be operational in the west (well, unless you go old school and just jam the hell out of every frequency under the sun, but that will hinder your own forces as much as the enemy, so is not a real solution in my book). To suggest that Iran managed to hijack the command link (can it even do that without a satillete of its own?) is simply not credible given just how difficult such a task would be. Such a thing would, in all likelihood, be well beyond the capabilities of even the US, Russia and China.

Just think of the implications if that was true. If you can successfully hack a top end secure datalink (which is almost certain to be a Link16) to take over the drone, then you can also hack into the secure datalink of every weapons system and platform that uses such a datalink.

You would be able to not only download enemy datalink data in real time, but also input data of your own, be it false co-ordinates to send incoming missiles into empty desert or the enemy's own forces, or send fake radar signals to misdirect enemy defences to even uploading viruses that shut down enemy radars and weapons systems or just tells planes to crash themselves or eject their pilots etc.

That is something not even fictional writers would dare to wet dream about, and would be a near impossible task even if you had yourself actual examples of link16 datalinks to examine and experiment with.

As I and others have already pointed out (albeit in different threads - seriously, there are discussions on this in at least three other threads that I have seen. The mods really should try and pull it all together here for ease to reference), it is intimately more probably that the drone crashed by itself, and the Iranians get doubly lucky that the drone survived the crash in such amazingly good condition.
 

solarz

Brigadier
With modern digital frequency agile communications equipment, even detecting and effectively being able to jam it would require cutting-edge signals processing equipment and software that may or may not even be operational in the west (well, unless you go old school and just jam the hell out of every frequency under the sun, but that will hinder your own forces as much as the enemy, so is not a real solution in my book).

I don't see why the Iranians couldn't have done just that.

Just think of the implications if that was true. If you can successfully hack a top end secure datalink (which is almost certain to be a Link16) to take over the drone, then you can also hack into the secure datalink of every weapons system and platform that uses such a datalink.

You're assuming that the Iranians had to have decrypted the transmissions. Not necessarily. With a bit of espionage work, they could have spoofed a landing command, or some other signal that would have made the UAV an easy target to capture.

it is intimately more probably that the drone crashed by itself, and the Iranians get doubly lucky that the drone survived the crash in such amazingly good condition.

And as you have pointed out, there are likely multiple fail safes built into the drone. What are the chances of the drone malfunctioning enough to lose all communication with base, to lose the fail safe command to fly back to base, to lose the fail safe self-destruct command, and yet still be able to land relatively intact?

From a programmer's point of view, I simply don't see why the drone would be given a program to land in enemy territory in case of communication loss.
 
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challenge

Banned Idiot
Re: Chinese UAV & UCAV development

giving her design, likely when drone lost power, shut down her engine, it become glider,automatically slowly glided to the ground.
 

SteelBird

Colonel
Let conclude something: (correct me if I'm wrong)
- The US confirms to lost communication with one drone
- The drone's owner refuses to comment on the event (neither accept nor refuse it)
- Iran claims to have the drone rather intact while somebody claims it's a mockup (can you build a full size mockup with less than one week?)
 

Munir

Banned Idiot
Re: Chinese UAV & UCAV development

I am amazed how many posters defend the side that invaded certain country. The fact that they use these UAV over Pakistan and Iran is clear and often reported. USA even now admitted that they lost one. Now we can keep acting that it is untrue but someone needs to switch on the light.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Re: Chinese UAV & UCAV development

according to wikipedia, iran had succeeded in overriding its controls.
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When did wikipedia become a reliable source. This is completely nonsense. Iranians have been known to exaggerate things when it comes to their military prowess. And beside, their stories have also been changing throughout. Look at which part of the UAV they showed and which part they didn't show and ask yourself why they did not show certain part.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
I don't see why the Iranians couldn't have done just that.

If they did that, then there would have been no way they could have hijacked the drone, as doing so would have screwed their own systems as much as the enemy's.

You're assuming that the Iranians had to have decrypted the transmissions. Not necessarily. With a bit of espionage work, they could have spoofed a landing command, or some other signal that would have made the UAV an easy target to capture.

I am not aware of any UAV in operation or development that has an automated 'landing commend'. All current operational UAVs are fully hands-on for landing, and is a taxing task even for experienced pilots.

For a highly sensitive spy drone like the RQ170, it would be even more unlikely that it would a) have an automated landing command command at all, b) even if it had such a command programme, it would be commanded the drone to return to base instead of just landing where the command was triggered.

And as you have pointed out, there are likely multiple fail safes built into the drone. What are the chances of the drone malfunctioning enough to lose all communication with base, to lose the fail safe command to fly back to base, to lose the fail safe self-destruct command, and yet still be able to land relatively intact?

Well, it only takes a single total power failure, or a flight control glitch to pitch the drone into a spinning stall, as Bill Sweetman recently speculated. In such an event, the drone would have a relatively high chance of surviving relatively intact. In both case, communication with the craft would be severed, either in the air, or as it impacted on the ground.

From a programmer's point of view, I simply don't see why the drone would be given a program to land in enemy territory in case of communication loss.

Which is precisely why many, including myself, believe the drone just crashed, and the Iranians had a double stroke of luck that it survived in very good condition.

Bare in mind how paranoid Iran is of a western attack on it (with some justification I must admit), of course they are going to try and milk this for all its worth and play up their own military capabilities to make it less likely that the west would launch a military operation against it.

The possibility that Iran might have actually managed to do exactly what they have claimed is a possibility the western militaries cannot afford to ignore, even though it is an extremely remote possibility. That will impact on their risk and cost assessment of military action against Iran.
 
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