Infantry Combat Equipment (non-firearm): Vests, Body Armor, NVGs, etc.

by78 said:

What are you rambling on about? The airborne blue camo belongs to the Type-07 family, which was developed FIFTEEN years ago. Where and how did you get the impression that it was adopted in 2018-2019?

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I misremembered and mixed it with opfor blue camo. That said, why did opfor adopt blue camo? Seems to create unrealistic training situations right?

kickars said:

Like by78 said, the current blue camo for both marine and airborne was introduced 15 years ago. In fact, in terms of the blue colour it has been the case for over 30 years since the end of 80s! So they were definitely not adopted last year.

If your question is why they were still issuing those type of blue camo knowing that the new ones were already in development, then it’s quite simple. Because they were in development not in production back in 2018. Unlike now, the new ones are in full production. That’s why the blue ones are not being issued anymore.

As to why they adopted blue camo at the first place back in the end of 80s and continued “tradition” until now, one of the ex-marine who helped to develop the current digital blue camo once answered during an interview not that long ago, he mentioned the purpose of Chinese marine was simply to stay alive before getting onto the beaches and secure the landing area, and on top that there are many tiny island and reef in the South China Sea which need the marines to defend and indeed take over when time comes. Therefore he believed blue camo was the best option for majority of the tasks Chinese marine face. You don’t have to agree with him. Nevertheless, that’s the reason. Of cause recently things have changed, that’s also why the introduction of the new camo.

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That doesn't make sense. They aren't swimming to the beach, they will be on assault vehicles and once they make landfall they might not live long if they get picked out. I'm surprised people didn't immediately notice this until now Is there any images of PLAMC camo actually working for the intended purpose?

Maxef208 said:

I misremembered and mixed it with opfor blue camo. That said, why did opfor adopt blue camo? Seems to create unrealistic training situations right?

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Apparently it only seems unrealistic to you.

British OPFOR:


French OPFOR:

Maxef208 said:

I find it funny that they have all this high tech gear on and next to this guy but he doesn't have an optic on his rifle or anything. Is the new optic not compatible with old QBZ rifles?

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I find it amusing that if you had followed this thread even just a little bit, like going back just a few of pages, you would have found out that this is an exhibit by a private military contractor to show off it's smart soldier system (with HMD), and as such optics on the rifle is rather beside the point. I also find it funny that we now have reams up reams of pages of images showing optics (including the new standard issue scope) being attached to the old QBZ-95s either through the built in proprietary rail or on a picatinny-like adapter, and yet you still ask the question whether the new optic is compatible with QBZ-95.

Maxef208 said:

I find it funny that they have all this high tech gear on and next to this guy but he doesn't have an optic on his rifle or anything. Is the new optic not compatible with old QBZ rifles?

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Just for your reference. To attach the new optic to the QBZ-95, which has its own proprietary optics mount, you have a three options:


1- You need either a version of the optic with the QBZ-95 mount, they exist and are currently in service as in the picture above.
2- Or if you want to use the picatinny version of the optic (for the QBZ 191), you will need to attach a picatinny rail to the QBZ-95 proprietary mount, and then attach the optic to the picatinny. This is how the PAP etc. mount commercially available sights which use picatinny mounting points to the QBZ 95.
3- Drastic measure, but PAP have been seen with aftermarket upper receivers with integrated picatinny.

IMO mounting a picatinny version to the QBZ 95 mount is probably not good for the new optic since it is designed for precision combat distance use (100-500m), mounting mounts to mounts are probably not great for maintaining a precise zero, but will do if you need. The potential for a slightly imprecise and floating zero it more acceptable for PAP since they're engagement ranges as law enforcement are basically point blank to 50m.

by78 said:

Apparently it only seems unrealistic to you.

British OPFOR:

French OPFOR:

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And US 11th ACR have worn black.
For OPFOR forces it doesn’t matter that much as they operate in a training environment.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

And US 11th ACR have worn black.
For OPFOR forces it doesn’t matter that much as they operate in a training environment.

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Don't you think it would add a dimension of realism to the training? The only reason I can think of for using blue camo, and not a specific pattern is to not give a sense that you're targeting a particular nation, but you can just use old patterns or more universally adopted patterns like woodland or print some specific opfor pattern in a realistic color palatte or just go with solid colors that blend in.

Maxef208 said:

What's your fucking problem man? People can't ask something without getting a snarky reply from you?

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You have a problem. I don't. And your problem is that you weren't asking questions, but rather you were giving your 'hot takes' and 'initial reactions' in the form of questions. This thread – and Sinodefence Forum in general – isn't the kind of place for that sort of thing, nor are our seasoned members likely to view favorably someone's pithy un-ironic declarations made with a great sense of discovery. Maybe you were looking to initiate banter or elicit reactions, but this thread isn't a place for that either.

Look, it's fairly simple. If someone coached his questions along the lines of, "hey, this is stooopid, why hasn't anyone thought of that?" or "lookie lookie at me, I'm the only one who thought of that. Don't you agree with me? Please agree with me." That person would unlikely receive a reception he's looking for, especially when he drops F-bombs, which is a big no-no around these parts.

Maxef208 said:

I find it amusing that you've already pointed out this is a tech demo, which means they would've pulled all stops to show how high tech this guy is equipped but doesn't have an optic which is pretty much considered the standard nowadays, not even a cheapo red dot. It's like a little missed detail in showing off a future soldier. Maybe I've been looking more at recent images of PLA and PAP actually training and deployed and there is a severe lack of optics, and the 191 optic doesn't seem to be mounted on enough of them to be regularly seen.

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Why stop with a cheapo red dot? How about adding some pomp by hiring a marching band and a gaggle of cheerleaders? Why not call in the August 1st Aerobatic team to do a flyover? While they are at it, just stage a full military parade. The cooler looking the better.

OR....

They could just focus on showing the product they are most concerned with showing off, which is the smart soldier kit.

P.S. Sinodefence Forum isn't a place for fanboys; it isn't a cool or hip place. There are many other places on the internet for that, but this isn't one of them. That said, you have brought some color to my day.

Maxef208 said:

Don't you think it would add a dimension of realism to the training? The only reason I can think of for using blue camo, and not a specific pattern is to not give a sense that you're targeting a particular nation, but you can just use old patterns or more universally adopted patterns like woodland or print some specific opfor pattern in a realistic color palatte or just go with solid colors that blend in.

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They have been used too. Before the blue patterns the British forces op for used older desert DPM sets. Well the trading unit used woodland DPM. However when the Brits moved to MTP the desert set didn’t contrast enough making friend vs foe harder. It also didn’t help that they were burning though DPM Desert in Iraq. They were no longer in production. So they chose the blue which The Brits like the Chinese and USN devised the blue for the Royal Navy.
The French Opfor unit urban combat as such like Some police agencies wears blue In this case a Flecktarn. As a Urban pattern it’s not bad.

The US has used a mix, black, Commercial Tiger stripe, 3color desert, Replica Russian camouflage, Brand new Jungle pattern, olive drab, Woodland, and Tan.
The black was favored as the Soviet’s used to issue black coveralls to armored Regiments.
Frankly there are a lot of reasons they choose patterns for opfor units it sometimes just comes down to what’s available cheaply. Sometimes they are willing to pay for a unique set Australia used a unique red tinged set for its opfor unit.

Maxef208, in case you haven’t done any research before telling people your opinions here. I’ll tell you one last time, marines of PLAN are different from the USMC. Their job up to very recently are limited to only capture the beaches during landing and staying on islands that smaller than some of the back gardens in the west. Therefore, the back drops are mostly blue water. As military fans like us agree with the blue camo 100% or not isn’t important. It’s up to the PLAN to decide. They decided to wear blue camo for the past 30 years and recently due to the changes within its marines they are starting to adopt other type of camos. That’s all. End of discussion on this matter, don’t you think?

I don’t know if you’re new to this forum. Almost everything you’ve been asking has already been answered multiple times. But you are insisting on your own view. What are you trying to achieve here? To convince people PLAN has been totally wrong with most of its decisions? No, I don’t think most people on this forum would agree with no matter what you say. But we do see problems and we see them adopting to new things all the time in their own pace.

This forum is quite different from others. We don’t just keep on moaning about something without achieving anything. We don’t keep asking questions without doing some sorts of research first. You want to see pics of PLAN’s marines doing their landing, then you should search those yourself either on this forum or simply google it before making your mind up that blue camos on Chinese marines are simply wrong. What’s even worse is that you keep on asking us to provide you with pics and vids to the questions you would like answers for. Fine, if those questions you were asking are impossible to answer yourself without some inside information or deep understanding of certain professional knowledge. But those aren’t what you’re asking, are they? Most things you’re moaning about can simply be found out on this forum.

If it’s a new forum to you, I understand how hard it’s for you to adjust as almost all the other forums nowadays have moaning and complaining as standard practices. People are getting used to shout out personal options without even the basic researches. Hopefully you will get what I’m trying to say here.

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