Infantry Combat Equipment (non-firearm): Vests, Body Armor, NVGs, etc.

Biscuits said:

I’ve heard that in the event of hostilities with the US, both armies would go to war without wearing ballistic armor at all, since it would only slow them down and anyone hit would be dead anyways. May just be a rumor though

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That might be the PLA but the US hasn't said anything about that. Besides with the newer US stuff they have been shaving weight and bulk.
Because of Iraq and Afghanistan the US has invested in "trouble shooting" armor issues which is why they moved on from the Interceptor vest though multiple systems to today with the emerging Soldier Protection System.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

That might be the PLA but the US hasn't said anything about that. Besides with the newer US stuff they have been shaving weight and bulk.
Because of Iraq and Afghanistan the US has invested in "trouble shooting" armor issues which is why they moved on from the Interceptor vest though multiple systems to today with the emerging Soldier Protection System.

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It was from third party conjecture.

Both PLA 5.8mm and NATO 5.56mm are designed to defeat body armor. It is argued that you are actually safer wearing nothing at all, since the shots would overpenetrate.

In reality, organizational inertia and psychological benefits might keep armor on even if it might be less safe.

In a true modern war, the only way to survive is to not be hit at all. Anything from a lowly 5.8/5.56 from a rifle to a 120/125mm HE round will instantly slaughter a soldier on the receiving end.

Camo is probably the best armor, hence why PLA has gone over to researching meta materials instead of trying to stack more plates on the soldiers.

Biscuits said:

true modern war, the only way to survive is to not be hit at all. Anything from a lowly 5.8/5.56 from a rifle to a 120/125mm HE round will instantly slaughter a soldier on the receiving end.

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No. A direct hit from a tank gun okay yeah it's a miracle if the victim survived but small arms it's a matter of the degree of hit and where hit.
Mammals have traded off some survivability vs our reptilian ancestors but still a human body is not easy to kill.
AP rounds trade off terminal ballistics vs penitration.
The method of kill for a AP that has penetrated is primarily to induce significant blood loss. But blood loss takes time and can be countered. The only absolute instant kill is to take out the brain stem that is absolutely lethal. But that's a hard to make shot.

Biscuits said:

Camo is probably the best armor, hence why PLA has gone over to researching meta materials instead of trying to stack more plates on the soldiers.

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...

Really?? Didn't the PLA just clone Multicam?
And metamaterials are the dream of all armies but doesn't seem practical.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

...
Really?? Didn't the PLA just clone Multicam?
And metamaterials are the dream of all armies but doesn't seem practical.

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Kind of. But there are some distinct possibilities here.
For example even back in the Soviet Union there were programs to make uniforms which had lower visibility in the IR spectrum.

The U.S. military has tried, and continues to try, special dyes and materials in uniforms to shield a soldier's IR signature from these imagers. "But you are running up against the laws of physics," camouflage expert retired Lt. Col. Tim O'Neill says. "The heat must escape somehow, or you will reduce the soldier to a hot, stinky puddle."

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I also remember the US military warning the Swedes a couple of years back not to allow some of their passive camouflage systems to get into the hands of other countries.

For example if you search for "SAAB Barracuda ULCANS" i.e. Ultra Lightweight Camouflage Net System (ULCANS).

Yes practical improvements in the IR.
Not the Kind of claims about "Metametarials" and "Quantum Stealth" that defy logic and physics as much as "cold fusion"

TerraN_EmpirE said:

No. A direct hit from a tank gun okay yeah it's a miracle if the victim survived but small arms it's a matter of the degree of hit and where hit.
Mammals have traded off some survivability vs our reptilian ancestors but still a human body is not easy to kill.
AP rounds trade off terminal ballistics vs penitration.
The method of kill for a AP that has penetrated is primarily to induce significant blood loss. But blood loss takes time and can be countered. The only absolute instant kill is to take out the brain stem that is absolutely lethal. But that's a hard to make shot.

...

Really?? Didn't the PLA just clone Multicam?
And metamaterials are the dream of all armies but doesn't seem practical.

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Yeah that was a stupid typo. Only the heavier weapons would outright kill you. But in a modern conflict you would still be very fucked if you were hit by a rifle. You’ll be pinned in place, need a squad mate to carry you out, while making you a huge target for stuff that could kill you immediately.

Point is, armor would only weigh you down, and in worst case make sure the bullet stays inside your body instead of overpenetrating.

What is wrong with multi cam? Thought US and Russia both used it as well?

Metamaterial seems to be a project in the works. It might not practical right now, but 10 years down the line it could be. It looks like the first wave will be used on vechicles to mask signature.

Edit: regarding your 2nd post, stuff like quantum radar, cold fusion etc. it’s all theoretical science... a lot of people will berate it for being useless... but remember project Manhattan started from theoretical science too...

Biscuits said:

Yeah that was a stupid typo. Only the heavier weapons would outright kill you. But in a modern conflict you would still be very

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Expletive not allowed in this forum.

Biscuits said:

if you were hit by a rifle. You’ll be pinned in place, need a squad mate to carry you out, while making you a huge target for stuff that could kill you immediately.

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Again not nessisarily. Lots of "if's", "and's" and "But's" come into play.

Biscuits said:

Point is, armor would only weigh you down, and in worst case make sure the bullet stays inside your body instead of overpenetrating.

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assuming it did penitrate at all. And even then you still have fragmentary threats grenades. Conventional and airburst.

Biscuits said:

What is wrong with multi cam? Thought US and Russia both used it as well?

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Russian is selective for there SF units who in the bad old days included infiltration and sabotage of NATO units. Where in wearing a uniform that blends into NATO troops would be a big help.
The other elements that wear it are there counter terror teams who are not part of the army per say.
US military partially developed Multicam the US military version is derived from its direct forerunner Skorpion W2 But modified with OR dyes producing darker colors then those seen in the PLA version.
My point was if you are claiming that the PLA is better at camo something is missing here.

Biscuits said:

Metamaterial seems to be a project in the works. It might not practical right now, but 10 years down the line it could be. It looks like the first wave will be used on vechicles to mask signature.

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Passive and active Vehicle IR signature control is emerging in the West. Systems like Baracuda disrupt vehicle heat and visual already. Active is being looked into and demonstrated right now.

Biscuits said:

regarding your 2nd post, stuff like quantum radar,

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I didn't say Quantum Radar I said . Which is where it seemed like you were leading but is about as realistic as cold fusion in my book.

Never said the PLA was particularly good at camo... where did you think I said that?

What are you even trying to argue?

I’m not arguing for forsaking armor, just lifting up a point I read elsewhere about the potential advantages of doing it.

If you’re want to start a fight about it, it would make you happy to know the PLA seems to be on your side for now. I’m not telling them to drop their armor if you think that

New desert camo (pixelated patterns)...

(1080 x 1440)

by78 said:

New desert camo (pixelated patterns)...

(1080 x 1440)

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With built in knee cap. But im more interested in the remote control car