Indian Military News

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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Re: Indian Army & Navy news thread

Gents, stay away from the politics.

bd popeye super moderator
 

Scratch

Captain
Re: Indian Army & Navy news thread

I'm putting it here because I think it's for of a news for the indian part. They still seem to be very confident of the "russian connection".
Even though the trouble with the Groshkov get' all the news, cooperation on other fronts seems to go well enough for the indians to spend a lot more money there. Then again, technologicly they may still have a lot to gain from this.

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Russia renews partnership with India

By Rahul Bedi - 21 October 2009

India and Russia have agreed to extend their strategic and military partnership by another decade to 2020 that will include the supply of materiel and maintenance contracts potentially worth some USD10 billion to Moscow.

The inter-governmment agreement on military-technical co-operation, to be signed during Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's visit to Russia in December, was finalised in Moscow by Defence Ministers A K Antony and Anatoly Serdyukov at the Indo-Russian Inter-Governmental Commission on Military Technical Co-operation (IRIGC-MTC) on October 14-15.

During Singh's visit the two sides will also sign the related inter-governmental agreement on after-sales product support: an issue that has been a long-standing point of contention in bilateral defence ties.

"It will be a bigger programme than the current 10-year programme, which expires next year, and will see a further shift from the buyer-seller relationship to joint design, development and production," Antony declared in Moscow.

Moscow remains India's largest materiel supplier - nearly 70 per cent of equipment for all three services is of Soviet or Russian origin - and annually conducts defence business with Delhi worth around USD1 billion to USD1.5 billion.

Military officials said Russia was hoping to secure lucrative contracts through the impending 10-year defence agreement because India had earmarked USD30 billion between 2012 and 2014 to modernise its military by acquisitions and upgrades: an amount expected to rise to USD80 billion by 2022.

However, during his Moscow visit, Antony was unable to resolve the contentious negotiations over the revised cost of refurbishing INS Vikramaditya (ex- Admiral Gorshkov ), the 44,750-ton Kiev-class aircraft carrier that the Indian Navy is acquiring for the price of its refit.
 

druid84

New Member
Re: Indian Army & Navy news thread

I just have a little suggestion, why not change the name of this thread to Indian military news thread, does it makes sense to only have it named Indian army and navy new thread?
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Re: Indian Army & Navy news thread

I just have a little suggestion, why not change the name of this thread to Indian military news thread, does it makes sense to only have it named Indian army and navy new thread?

Great idea! It is done...

This is the Indian Military News thread.:)
 

Baibar of Jalat

Junior Member
Though Akash has been delayed by eight years, it promises to be state-of-the-art

Making ballistic missiles is no longer rocket science. "You decide that you will launch a missile on a Sunday after breakfast, and you do it," said Dr Prahlada, chief controller of Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO). You launch from earth, and you hit a stationary target on earth.

Tactical missiles, which strike several war jets flying faster than sound, are more complex. Only three or four countries such as the US, Russia and France have developed operational multitarget-handling surface-to-air missile systems. With last month's user trials of Akash, India has entered the club. China and Taiwan may soon follow suit.


But there is something more to Akash. It uses solid fuel. No country, except Russia, has mastered solid fuel technology in tactical missiles. Not even the US. That way, DRDO scientists consider Akash superior to the US Patriot. Unlike Patriot, Akash does not coast while it approaches the target, and thus has a higher kill probability. Liquid-fuelled missiles like Patriot would have burnt up all the fuel before they reach the target. In solid-fuel systems, the fuel is rationed so that the velocity is maintained throughout the flight. "Because this missile has an integrated ram-rocket, manoeuvrability is highest. The engine is 'on' throughout the flight. The thrust is on till the missile intercepts the target," explained Prahlada.

With Akash, Indian scientists mastered two unique technologies-multi-function phased array system integration, and integration of ram-rocket propulsion, aerodynamics, structure, and control. "But the beauty of Akash is in something else-that we had 100 per cent success. We conducted nine trials, and not even one failed," said Prahlada.

With Akash's success, and the expected success of anti-tank missile Nag, DRDO expects to close its prestigious Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme (IGMDP). However, Prahlada's statement was generally interpreted as scrapping of the programme. In an exclusive interview, he clarified the misconceptions, and explained the problems that plagued the DRDO.

The Akash system is not just about a few missiles, but also about the three-dimensional radar, its command-control system and many other systems.

How different is it from the systems that we have in service now?

Normal surveillance radars are two-dimensional. They tell you the range and the azimuth [of the target], not the height at which the targets are flying. A missile battery commander also would like to know at what height the enemy aircraft are coming. Our radar, developed by LRDE, tells you this. That is why it is called 3D Central Acquisition Radar [CAR]. We have offered it to the Navy for shore and ship-based surveillance, and to the Air Force for airport and air-based applications.

Then there is another radar in this system, which is a multi-function phased-array radar. This one can electronically scan, do surveillance, track a number of targets, acquire the targets, and guide the missiles towards the targets. All these functions it can do simultaneously, because it is electronically scanned beam. The whole Akash system is highly IT-integrated.

How does it operate in a battlefield condition?

Suppose there are four aircraft attacking a city simultaneously from one direction. A conventional surface-to-air missile system has a radar tracking a target. One radar handles one target. When the second target comes, it will have to leave the first. So you need more radars. What we have now developed is a multi-function radar. This radar is at the heart of the Akash system. It will guide the missile, track the target, and will do surveillance. It can handle multiple targets.

How many countries have this technology?

In the whole world, Russia, the US, France have operational multitarget-handling missile systems for surface-to-air application. China claims they also have it. China and Taiwan may be making it. So this has not proliferated like ballistic missiles.

Is it also being developed as a weapon-locating radar? India imported a few WLRs from the US.

It also has an application called weapon locating. We now offer this [to the Army], and trials are completed. This has superior features. This is of later generation [than the US-imported radars] and can handle more targets, has less weight, and is much cheaper. The Army has cleared 28 radars. You can say this is a fallout or spin-off from Akash.

What were the user's concerns about Akash? The services have always had problems with DRDO-developed systems.

First, they [IAF] wanted accuracy. It is accurate. We have demonstrated it nine times. It was perfectly accurate all the nine times. Then they wanted consistency. Nine flights, and not a single misbehavior. The third concern was whether the complete weapon system, not just the missile, was ready. We have all that-the missile, the radar, the control centre, everything. In last month's test, we deployed all of them on the beach, where there was no existing infrastructure. We demonstrated the complete air defence function.

How does it work if deployed, say around Delhi?

You put the CAR. It looks for threats all around Delhi, finds out targets coming, alerts the battery. The batteries get ready, and the targets are assigned. Once the target is within the kill zone, the control centre will assign the target. All this is done automatically. The assignment has to be accepted by the battery, and priority is given. They will check whether the target is enemy or friend. Then the launcher is readied and checked. The moment the target gets assigned, the missile gets powered. The battery will know when the target will reach the optimum kill zone, when you have the highest probability of killing.

What is the kill probability?

On a single launch it is 88 per cent. Assured 88 per cent. So when the target enters the optimum kill zone, the commander gets a beep. Unless he has any other information, he will clear the launch. Then the missile is checked automatically, and it fires. When the missile flies, the radar tracks it. If the first missile does not take off due to any mistake, automatically a second missile gets launched.

Suppose the target is high priority, the commander would take no chances. He can then launch two missiles at the same target. One will go, and after 5 seconds the other will go. Then the kill probability is 99 per cent.

And it is most reliable. We were telling the Air Force that even if four out of five launches [done last month] succeed, you should take it. Some quality control problem, some loose wires, something not put correctly, can cause a problem in one or two. Even in imported, mature systems, produced in hundreds, a few could fail. But five out of five succeeded. Not even a single one misbehaved.

What about production? Can the industries take bulk orders now?

We took the people from the industry, and told them to talk to the user. All the hardware are made by the industry, private and public sector. They are ready for production. You place the order, and they will deliver. Now BDL and BEL are ready for serial production. We are now only facilitators.

DRDO projects have always been plagued by delays. This also has been.

We are late by five to eight years. I agree. We promised to give it in 2000. But technologically, it is not obsolete. This is still state-of-the-art. You can't get such a system elsewhere. We own up the delay, but the delay has not caused the system to be obsolete. It is also cost-effective. You cannot get such a missile system for the price. For an Air Force squadron the cost is approximately Rs 500 crore, one missile about Rs 2 crore. For this class, this accuracy and this range, you won't get another system. Plus it is indigenous. You can upgrade it as you want, change its software, you can produce it the way you want. You want one per month or ten per month you can get it. The whole investment is within the country. No rupee is going out.

We took 20-21 years to perfect the missiles in the IGMDP. You take Barak [of Israel] or Patriot [of the US]. They also took more than 20 years for the first systems to be developed. So we didn't take more. We have done as good as the best in the world. They won't take 20 years to develop the second missile. Nor will India.

Our mistake is that, initially, we said we will take 12 years, and we took 20 years. People were too optimistic, or thought that by giving an early date they could urge everyone to work better. We lost technologists in the 1990s in the IT boom. Then there were the sanctions after the nuclear test, when several components were denied.

There were reports that the IGMDP has been scrapped. Can you clarify?

The IGMDP had five parts-Agni was a technology demonstrator. Then there was Prithvi. The Army accepted it. The three tactical missiles took longer. It was expected that tacticals would take longer. The next was Trishul, over which we got into a technological problem. The Navy was in a hurry to fit their ships; they could not wait. So Trishul was almost taken out so that we could resolve the technical problems. It was successfully tested in 2006-07. The development was completed in January 2006. Then we did mobility test, air defence test, ECM trials. From January 2006 to December 2007, we did all the user-related activities. Akash is completed. We have some money left, but we close the project and give that money back to the government.

So it is not scrapping, but closing the programme?

The objectives as defined in the original project, when we got the government sanction, have been achieved. So we have completed it. The only one left is [anti-tank missile] Nag. By summer 2008, we will complete all the Nag-related work. By then all the IGMDP-related work would be over. These were five specific projects, and we are completing them.

What about Agni-3 and other programmes?

There are other programmes, like Agni-2, Agni-3. Then we have got Astra programme sanctioned. They are continuing. But they are not part of the original IGMDP. There is no question of any project [being] closed when the objectives are not met. [While completing the objectives] you take new projects. You go to the government for fresh approval of those programmes.

So Agni-3 and Agni-4 don't come under this?

Agni-3 is under development. [It is] not a part of the IGMDP. Not even Agni-1 was part of the IGMDP. The moment we finished technology demonstration of Agni with three flights, we took it out of IGMDP. And we took separate sanction for Agni-1, Agni-2, Agni-3. Not only for developing, but flight tests, infrastructure. They all got implemented.

Could not let this pass, he claims China does not have operational multi targeting SAMs. This guy needs to read up on KS 1A, HQ-64, FM-90, HQ 9 and HQ 16. This guy is a official from DRDO, these are the guys trusted to defend India. PRC military should be glad that they are misinformed.
 
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Ambivalent

Junior Member
Could not let this pass, he claims China does not have operational multi targeting SAMs. This guy needs to read up on KS 1A, HQ-64, FM-90, HQ 9 and HQ 16. This guy is a official from DRDO, these are the guys trusted to defend India. PRC military should be glad that they are misinformed.

Uh, the author is deeply uninformed. The US has plenty of solid fuel surface to air and surface to surface tactical missiles. Patriot, for example, is solid fueled, contrary to what the author writes. Crud, the US builds solid fueled ICBM's and SLBM's.
The second error regards whether or not the missile "coasts" to use the author's term. All missiles have some ability to continue to their target after all fuel is expended, solid fueled or liquid. Intercepts usually take a matter of seconds, not minutes, and nearly all missiles remain controllable after all fuel is burned out. If there is enough momentum, a missile can complete a maximum range intercept after fuel is expended. Btw, liquid fueled rockets can be throttled, solid fueled one cannot be throttled. Solid fuel rockets burn until all fuel is expended. A solid fuel ramjet has the advantage of having a greater range at a higher sustained speed than most solid fuel rockets of similar size. Most, but not necessarily all. They are not necessarily as reliable as a solid fueled rocket, however, and remain quite expensive to make. As in all engineering, there are trade offs, cost vs capability vs what is sufficient to do the job.
 

Aero_Wing_32

Junior Member
full Upgrade of the Mirage 2000 fleet, in good shape?!

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Political push from Paris for Mirage-2000 upgrade

Ajai Shukla / New Delhi December 05, 2009, 0:47 IST

Thales to bring down price by involving Indian industry.

French President, Nikolas Sarkozy, has thrown his weight behind the Rs 10,000 crore bid by French company, Thales, to upgrade the Indian Air Force Mirage-2000 fighter fleet. Sarkozy’s defence minister, Hervé Morin, in New Delhi for a day, made his pitch this morning to Defence Minister AK Antony, telling him that President Sarkozy is keen on signing the deal when he visits India early next year.

Addressing a press conference after his meetings in South Block, Morin revealed that he discussed outstanding procurement cases, including the Mirage-2000 upgrade, with his indian counterpart. Morin said: “We are hoping that some of the procurement cases that are under way between India and France are finalised by the time Sarcozy visits.”

Through two years of negotiations, French aerospace major, Thales, and the IAF have been unable to agree on a price for outfitting India’s 51 Mirage-2000s with new radars, avionics, electronic warfare systems and onboard computers, which will make the aircraft battle worthy for another 15 years. From an initial offer of Rs 13,500 crores ($2.9 billion), Thales came down to Rs 10,000 crores ($2.1 billion). But even that is exorbitant; the IAF has let it be known that, instead of spending Rs 196 crores ($41 million) on each Mirage-2000, it would prefer to buy brand new fighters.

That hard bargaining, it seems, is working. Thales is looking to reduce its price by using Indian suppliers for a significant share of work and components for the upgrade. The IAF now believes that a deal could be close. A top IAF official, who is close to the negotiations, told Business Standard on condition of anonymity, “Thales is climbing down from its high horse and we will meet them halfway. The French President has given his officials a diktat that the Mirage-2000 upgrade deal must be buttoned up this year.”

That urgency is fully endorsed by French officials. One highly placed French industrial source asks rhetorically, “If the upgrade deal is not finalised, what else is there for Sarkozy to sign in Delhi?”

So far, during negotiations, Thales has argued that if India insisted on a cheaper upgrade for the Mirage-2000 fleet, it should be prepared to upgrade fewer systems. If, for example, the IAF was willing to upgrade only the weapons systems, the cost would be considerably cheaper. But the IAF insisted on a full upgrade.

Now, with Thales looking to source from India, there could be rich pickings for Indian avionics manufacturers like Samtel Thales Avionics, the joint venture that NCR-based Samtel Display Systems has set up with Thales. Components developed in France by Thales, will be manufactured cheaply in Samtel Thales Avionics’ high-tech facility near Ghaziabad, allowing Thales to lower its bid significantly.

Puneet Kaura, Executive Director, Samtel Display Systems, confirmed to Business Standard that, “Samtel Thales Avionics is going to be a major partner in the Mirage-2000 upgrade. We have negotiated with Thales for doing a number of work packages in the upgrade. This will also benefit Thales in meeting the offset liabilities that will arise out of this deal.”

For IAF planners the participation of Indian companies, including Samtel Thales Avionics, is a welcome prospect since they would be able to maintain and repair the upgraded avionics in India. The Indian companies would also handle “obsolescence management”, which involves redesigning avionics cards that need upgrading.

Thales was already on track to build avionics systems in Samtel Thales Avionics for a variety of Indian aircraft. These include the technologically advanced TopSight-I, the Helmet Mounted Sight Display (HMD) that Indian Navy MiG-29K pilots will use while operating from aircraft carriers.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
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Interesting article - what do you guys think of it? :coffee:

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Shimla-based Indian Army Training Command, headed by Lt-General A S Lamba is getting ready for something Indian Military never was ready before. Indian Air Force, Navy, and Army is ready to face Pakistan and China at the same time.

India’s 1.13-million strong Military is now panning to handle two major war fronts at the same time. India considers Pakistan and China as part of the same camp. India knows the next war will be between India and “Pakistan +China.” India will get indirect support from America and Russia, but Indian Military will have to fight the two war at the same time.

Indian Military has been training for the mini giant war against two nuclear powered nations at the same time. China has used Pakistan for a long time to keep India busy. Now time has come for India to recognize a massive threat from China and Pakistan at the same time.

Indian Army chief General Deepak Kapoor emphasizes that India is ready for a “the successful firming-up of the cold start strategy (to be able to go to war promptly) in the multiple fronts against multiple different militias at the same time.”

The plan is a full thrust assault into multiple anomies at the same time with massive Air Force superiority. If attacked by Pakistan and china at the same time, India will launch self-contained and highly-mobile `battle groups'', with Russian-origin T-90S tanks and upgraded T-72 M1 tanks at their core, adequately backed by far superior air cover and artillery fire assaults, for rapid thrusts into enemy territory within 96 hours.

India plans to end the war decisively within the first 96 hours forcing the other sides into a fast submission of ceasefire.

People’s Liberation Army is aware of the capacities of Indian Army and Air Force. It will be exactly opposite of 1962 war. That is why they are busy building massive infrastructure in the Indian border areas especially in Aksai Chin and Tibet.

he real war in that scenario will be between India and China while Pakistan will be used by China to create adequate disturbance for Indian Military.

That is the reason why Lt-General A S Lamba of Indian Army is so keen a massive thrust into Rawalpindi to quiet Pakistanis within 48 hours of the start of assault.

India’s biggest advantage is the its software capabilities in integrating signal intelligence with ground intelligence. India will use algorithmic seek and scan technology to counter the Chinese threats in the North and possible Pakistani nuclear threat in the West.

India is focused on integrating its Navy, Army and Air Force into an integrated command and Control system completely controlled and dominated by the superior software algorithms that can prove deadly in the war front.
 

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
This is verging on breaking the prohibition on India vs. China discussion, but I'll just say that if the Indian Army staff thinks they can inflict a "decisive defeat" on China in 96 hours, well, they're sadly mistaken.

I don't know if the most laughable was the part about how the Indian Air Force will use "massive superiority" to achieve a poorly defined goal and somehow defeat the PLAAF, or when they were talking about how "seek and scan software" will somehow neutralize Pakistan's nuclear arsenal. What even is "seek and scan software"?

If the Indian command structure really believes this, then that part of the world might be more dangerous than we know.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
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Yeah let's try to stay clear from India vs. China as much as possible >_>

When I read this I was rather surprised too - at the Indian military for even releasing such a statement (though it is from an Indian general so he may not be representing the whole service).
A good start to end to a year of Indian/Chinese media squabbles and badly reported Indian Military related news though (it was released over 4 days ago).
 
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