Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Jeff Head said:

The Shivalik vessels are a very good FFGs. And the Indians built them themselves.

Too bad they only have three of them and do not have 5 to 9 more of them.

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Jeff Head said:

Your statement needs significant clarification.

You refere to the 2,222 kms (from Wikipedia I presume) as the range for the P-8, when that is not the case at all. That is the Combat Radius which is a significantly different term.

The P-8A has a 1,200 nautical mile combat radius (2,220 km). The P-8 team has defined that to mean that it can go out 1,200 nautical miles, and then remain on station patrolling for 4 hours, before having to RTB. It's crusiing speed while on patrol is 450 knots. So it has a significantly longer range than what you refer to.

And that is unrefueled. The P-8A is capable of inflight refueling so it can arrange to remain on station or get to whatever AO it needs to and remain there for very long periods of time.

While there it can provide it ample weapons store, including a very large number of sonar buoys, Torpedoes, surface to air missiles, etc. as well as its very advanced and sophisticated sensors and electronics to its mission.

Now, let's talk about the Nimrod.

As designed and produced it was unable to do inflight refueling. But it did have that magnificent unrefueled range of between 8,500 and 9,200 liometers depending on conditions.

During the Flaklands war, the MR2P refit was rushed into production so that it could be refueled in flight. However, in September 2006, while over Afghanistan, a Nimrod exploded in flight right after refueling resulting in the loss of all onboard and the aircraft. The resulting inquiry showed that there was a fundamental design flaw with the Nimrod's fuel system, whicb resulted in part from the hastily performed air-to-air refuelling modification made for the Falklands conflict. From that point, all inflight refuleing was suspended for the Nimrod fleet until their retirement.

But it was indeed a good aircraft and served very ably for decades. Due to poor decision making and delays by government officials, now the UK has now MPA capability.

So, right now, the UK is looking at the P-8A. And the P-8A is a very good, very capable MPA and ASW aircraft. I personally believe that the UK will end up purchasing P-8As. But time will tell.

But to say that the P-8A is inadequate for the UKs needs is just incorrect.

Will the UK choose them? We shall see. Maybe not. But they are available and they are being seriously considered.

BYW, since they are UK News related, I copied your post and my response to the UK Military News thread.

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FORBIN said:

FFG Shivalik, can carry 2 helos.

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FFG Talwar can carry 1 helo, the last three on six have Brahmos which replace Klub.

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A Bar Brother said:

Our budget only seems small because you are converting it into Dollars. You have to see budgets based on their individual currencies. Not to mention, the Indian exchange rate has been artificially lowered to boost growth through exports and make our goods competitive versus countries with much lower costs.

India's defense budget is 2.29 Trillion INR. That's quite a lot even by Indian standards. Well over 12% of our actual expenditure. In truth, defense expenditure has actually fallen if you compare it to our other expenses. It used to be over 16% a few years ago.

India's GDP was $1.8 Trillion back in 2011 and today it is just $2 Trillion, due to artificial reduction of the exchange rate. But during the same time, the actual growth in GDP was much higher, from a little over $4 Trillion in 2011 to around $7 Trillion today, well over 10% growth. Similarly, even the defense budget has increased, from INR 1.64 Trillion to INR 2.29 Trillion.

If you want to compare our budget to other countries, then we are roughly the third or the fourth largest in terms of defense expenditure, irrespective of the dollar rate. Hence why we are around that position when it comes to the size of our military.

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NEW DELHI: Ahead of President Vladimir Putin's visit here early next month, India has told Russia to come back with a plan to substantially reduce the delivery timeframe for the stealth fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) if it wants to seal the futuristic project by next year.

The plan till now was that India would begin inducting the stealth fighters only 94 months — at the earliest — after the two countries inked the final design and R&D contract, which itself has already been delayed by over two years by now.

"Russia has now been told that India cannot wait for a decade to get the FGFA. The delivery schedules should be compressed instead of IAF waiting for the FGFA till 2024-2025. The Russians will probably respond during Putin's visit," a defence ministry source said on Monday.

As was first reported by TOI, India is already upset with Russia for not giving its experts "full technological access" to the FGFA project despite being an equal funding partner. The final design contract, which is yet to be inked after missing the mid-2012 deadline, envisages the two countries chipping in with $5.5 billion each towards designing, infrastructure build-up, prototype development and flight testing.

With the 127 single-seat FGFA that IAF wants costing extra, India will spend around $25 billion on the entire project. India had already spent $295 million on it after inking the preliminary design contract with Russia in December 2010.

The Indian "perspective multirole fighter" is to be based on the under development Russian FGFA called PAK-FA or Sukhoi T-50, which undertook its first flight-test in January 2010, but will be tweaked to IAF's requirements.

As per the initial plan, with Indian scientists and experts also being based in Russia, the Ozar facility of Hindustan Aeronautics in Nashik was to get three FGFA prototypes in 2014, 2017 and 2019 for test-flying by IAF pilots. The final production was to begin only around 2022. All these timelines, of course, have gone awry with the final design contract yet to be sealed.

With IAF down to just 34 fighter squadrons, when at least 44 are required, alarm bells have finally begun to clang loudly in the Indian defence establishment over the long delays in all its three fighter induction projects.

The indigenous Tejas light combat aircraft, first approved in 1983, for instance, will get final operational clearance only by mid-2015. But IAF will get what it actually wants, the four Tejas Mark-II squadrons, from 2022 onwards.

Negotiations for the almost $20 billion MMRCA (medium multirole combat aircraft) project for 126 Rafale fighters, too, are stuck with France yet to accept full responsibility for the 108 of the jets to be produced in India. "MoD wants at least two of the three projects (FGFA, LCA and MMRCA) to be speeded up," said a source.

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SEATTLE, Nov. 25, 2014 – Boeing [NYSE: BA] delivered the sixth P-8I maritime patrol aircraft to India, on schedule, on Nov. 24, arriving at Naval Air Station Rajali to join five others being used by the Indian Navy.
The P-8I is part of a contract of eight awarded in 2009. The final two deliveries are scheduled for 2015.
“The P-8I’s arrival in India is another key milestone for the program and marks our final delivery of the year,” said Dennis Swanson, vice president, Boeing Defense, Space & Security in India. “The Indian Navy is currently conducting missions with the first five aircraft, and this newest P-8I will begin flight trials in the coming months.”
Based on the company’s Next-Generation 737 commercial airplane, the P-8I is the Indian Navy variant of the P-8A Poseidon that Boeing builds for the U.S. Navy.
The P-8I incorporates not only India-unique design features, but also Indian-built sub-systems that are tailored to meet the country’s maritime patrol requirements. The P-8I features open systems architecture, advanced sensor and display technologies, and a worldwide base of suppliers, parts, and support equipment.
“We have a great partnership with India, which has helped us keep the program on schedule and on budget,” said Mark Jordan, Boeing P-8 International program manager.
In order to efficiently design and build the P-8I and the P-8A, the Boeing-led team is using a first-in-industry, in-line production process that draws on the company’s Next-Generation 737 production system. P-8I aircraft are built by a Boeing-led industry team that includes CFM International, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, Spirit AeroSystems, BAE Systems and GE Aviation.
Boeing has been active in India for 70 years with its commercial airplanes providing the mainstay of India’s civil aviation sector. More recently its military aircraft have started to play an important role in the modernization and mission-readiness of India’s defense forces. Boeing is focused on delivering value to its Indian customers with its advanced technologies and performance driven aircraft underscored by life-cycle support services. Boeing is also committed to creating sustainable value in the Indian aerospace sector - developing local suppliers, pursuing business partnerships and shaping research and technical collaborations with Indian companies and institutions.

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Nov 25: The fourth edition of the Indo-Sino Joint Military Training Exercise -- Hand-in-Hand 2014 -- culminated today at the Aundh Military Camp in Pune. Army officials said that the exercise came to an end following a rigorous a Joint Tactical Exercise. During the 12-day exercise, armies of both countries undertook training in understanding of transnational terrorism, developing interoperability and conduct of a joint tactical operation controlled by a Joint Command Post. "The exercise involved insertion of troops by slithering from helicopters and destroying a terrorist hide out. It demonstrated the commitment of both armies in working closely with each other to eradicate the menace of terrorism in all its forms," an Army spokesperson said.

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Goa Shipyard Ltd (GSL), Goa-based Defence shipyard will launch the largest new generation Offshore Patrol Vessel (OPV) designed in-house and built by it for the Indian Coast Guard(ICG) on Wednesday in south Goa.

Rachna Thapliyal will launch the vessel in company of Vice Admiral Anurag G. Thapliyal, Director General, ICG. Chairman and Managing Director of GSL Shekhar Mital and many other senior dignitaries from

government, Navy and Coast Guard.

This state-of-the-art OPV is the first of six being built by GSL for Indian Coast Guard. The OPV will help meet the increasing requirement of the ICG for undertaking policing and patrolling of the vast Indian Exclusive Economic Zone.

The vessel is also capable of other Coast Guard functions like search and rescue operations, pollution control and external fire-fighting.

This vessel will also be deployed for ocean surveillance and for monitoring sea lanes of communication. The ship is capable of supporting embarkation and operation of the indigenously-designed Advanced Light Helicopter.

“The ongoing construction of OPVs for Coast Guard is in full swing. Despite delay in receipt of several critical equipment like shafting, DG Sets, ‘A’ Bracket etc., we are working hard to ensure that the vessel is made ready for delivery as per schedule by October 15. This will further reinforce our unwavering commitment for timely delivery of ships,” said CMD Mital ahead of the launch of the vessel on Monday.

The OPV is powered by twin diesel engines and is fitted with state-of-the-art navigation and communication equipment. The vessel carries four boats for boarding party operations. One 30 mm gun and two 12.7 mm guns with associated fire control system, form the main weaponry package.

The contract for the construction of six OPVs for the ICG was signed on May 9, 2012.

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