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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
The Indian Kilo submarine issue is worse than I thought. Lieutenant Manoranjan Kumar is a hero, as is the officer who is blowing the whistle on this whole thing. In war time, from time to time you may have to send a ship out to fight with less than adequate or optimum conditions. In peace time, there is no excuse for such conditions to become endemic to the system and endanger every Indian naval personnel on a whole class of ships. This should have been forthrightly addressed when it was first identified...not swept under the carpet and allowed to grow worse to the point that so many Indian naval personnel are dying over it.

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India Today said:
As an Indian Navy board of inquiry investigates the Feb 26 disaster on board Kilo-class submarine INS Sindhuratna, a shattering twist has surfaced throwing up enormous questions for Navy and government leadership and their culpability. Just 96 hours before the accident, navy officer Lieutenant Manoranjan Kumar, one of two officers who perished on board, had spoken to seniors about how operating the INS Sindhuratna and her sister submarines was like 'sailing on a bomb'. A serving Indian Navy officer, one of the last to speak to Lt Manoranjan on shore before he departed on his final voyage, has blown the whistle on that final, disturbing conversation in which the ill-fated young officer is stated to have ruefully accepted his fate as a young officer with no choice but to set out to sea on a submarine that could well be his tomb. The officer, whose identity is being protected for obvious reasons, currently serves at the Western Naval Command, and has written in detail about his chance encounter with Lt Manoranjan on Feb 22 at the Naval Officers' Mess, an e-mail currently doing the rounds within the Indian Navy.

On condition that his identity be protected, the whistleblower officer has spoken in detail over the phone to Headlines Today about Lt Manoranjan's disturbing and prophetic conversation on shore before he set sail to test the INS Sindhuratna at sea before re-induction into the operational fleet. His conversation to Headlines Today and his e-mail to seniors in the Indian Navy, make for the most disturbing commentary on the unacceptable dangers being imposed on Indian submariners during peacetime, beyond the inherent risks of the job.

"Just last week, I sat opposite a dashing, flamboyant, square-jawed Lieutenant wearing a Submariner badge alongside a Divers' badge. Polite conversation done, I asked him about the submarine arm. His reply, typically direct of military youth, 'We sail on a bomb, Sir'", the serving officer has told Headlines Today. The officer quotes Lt Manoranjan as having said, "The batteries are so old that despite the ten times effort to maintain, they still produce ten times the gas. The hydrogen burners simply can't cope."

More disturbingly, when the officer asked Lt Manoranjan why he hadn't flagged the issue up the naval chain of command, the young officer is quoted to have said, "Sir, everybody is aware. It's a point at the Commander's Conference attended by the entire higher military leadership - navy and civilian," adding, "Battery pit fires are the order of the day sir."

As reported first by Headlines Today, it was expired batteries that likely caused the fatal gas leak in the battery pit and emergency response system that entombed Lt Manoranjan and fellow officer Lt Cdr Kapish Muwal into a compartment on board INS Sindhuratna, leading to their deaths from suffocation.

The whistleblower officer, has enunciated his shock and pain too. Speaking over the phone to Headlines Today, he said, "Later on I got a message that it was Lt Manoranjan Kumar who had died. It was a shock to know. Frankly speaking, I was shocked in a sense. Why did I wish him luck? I was shocked to remember the conversation. I felt terribly bad. I didn't sleep for two days. I had tears in my eyes. I had this conversation. [Lt Manoranjan Kumar] knew that an issue was there. Still he went there and laid down his life for the country. Plus I had the burden of this conversation where he describes, 'Sir, we are just... anything can happen, anytime'."

The officer has also told Headlines Today that his anger is shared by several in the navy who cannot, for obvious reasons, step up and speak out. He indicated that his encounter with Lt Manoranjan just four days before a death he had virtually foretold, was simply "too much to keep silent about".

"Some part of the accountability should be with the people seated at the Command and Naval Headquarters, where they are equally responsible. The ministry of defence is an integrated headquarters, but unfortunately they don't share the responsibility. I think it is the collective responsibility from the bottom, from the electrical officer who should have said that you can't sail, to the minister or the headquarters who are responsible for supplying these weapons. I think everybody down the chain is responsible," the officer said.

Also, as reported, a dramatic warning by the Navy in 2010 to the Defence Ministry on the dangerous state of affairs in the submarine arm, has been almost meticulously ignored for four years now.

While death is always an occupational hazard in military duties, the demise of Lt Manoranjan and his fellow officer has had a particularly grave effect on the naval rank and file.

In a paragraph that should concern the naval and Defence Ministry leadership, the officer says, "It leaves a personal - professional turbulence: personal touch and professional void. Should Lt Manoranjan, like every government official, have followed the 'laid down procedure' and evacuated when the alarm must have been sounded or was it laudable that he stayed back in the crammy battery pit to fight? I don't know. Is our nation capable of proving better? I don't know. Is the military hierarchy to blame or should the civilian chain also share the responsibility of this decay? I don't know. Is it the 'all's-well' people within the service or the unsympathetic and uncomprehending fools outside who killed him. I don't know!... Neither did Manoranjan. We just obey. Should we continue to just obey? I don't know."

The officer signs off with a deeply emotional declaration on responsibility: "One thing that Manoranjan knew was that we are sitting on a bomb. Should we keep it that way? And drown each boom with three volleys fired at the cremation ground. I don't think so. Mostly, the sentiment is that we get paid for it. Arguably, a little less, but offset by a tot of rum to compensate for it. In drinking for Lieutenant Manoranjan tonight, I drink for every Indian Naval Sailor who ventures out into the unknown storm. Whether this tempest be nature's fury or man-made, I salute Manoranjan. I extend apologies for my part in the collective responsibility of his death."
 

aksha

Captain
ak antony was always unsuitable for defence minister post.ever since he resigned as cheif mnisttr of kerala after corruption allegations in his govt.,he was more interested in showing people how honest he instead of doing his job.since he took over as defence minister ,allmost all military projects have been delayed,defence minister should be bold . today it was reported that an order for aircraft engines from a global engine manufacturer was due to bribes,a military official at defexpo was saying that when they hold a competition to select military hardware one of the losers anonymously leak allegations that buy was due to bribery,and antony freezes the project even if he knows nothing is wrong,i suspect allegations are about engines for tejas,honestly tejas cant be allowed suffer any more delays.but things are set to be more worse for the next 5 years as india goes into general elections,in which no political party will win an absolute majority will lead to useless coalition govt.due to 4 political fronts contesting
INS Sindhuratna: Report on battery system overhaul will haunt AK Antony

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takes just five minutes to pour cold water on a reputation built up in a political career spanning over half a century. Defence Minister AK Antony has had to learn this the bitter way with the resignation of Admiral DK Joshi as the Indian Navy chief, the immediate provocation being an incident aboard INS Sindhuratna that resulted in the deaths of two officers and injuries to seven sailors when smoke filled the battery compartment of the submarine, 80 nautical miles off Mumbai. The Sindhuratna after she returned to Mumbai. PTI Having taken "moral responsibility" for this accident and a string of others in the past seven-odd months, everyone agrees that Admiral Joshi has gone out in a blaze of glory while Antony has been shamefacedly left holding the wooden spoon. That Admiral Joshi was an upright, highly competent and no-nonsense officer with a hitherto blemishless record who would never hesitate to call a spade a spade is also not in doubt. Matters came to a head last November when Antony asked the navy to clean up its act and ensure that its valuable assets were not "frittered away". But then, Antony chose to not look within, where the fault actually lay -- there were repeated reports of the Comptroller and Auditor General that procurement delays were resulting in the Indian Navy losing its blue water capabilities. Antony, it must be remembered, is the chairman of the Defence Acquisition Committee (DAC) that clears the purchases of all military hardware. In its report of 2008-09, the CAG said: "The process of procurement of battery monitoring system urgently needed for submarines witnessed inordinate delays". This report must now come to haunt Antony. On INS Sindhuratna, there was a smoke build-up in the battery compartment. In the case of INS Sindhurakshak, a hydrogen build-up in the battery compartment resulted in a massive explosion that killed 18 officers and sailors and caused the submarine to sink in Mumbai harbour on August 14, 2013. Interestingly, the two vessels were anchored virtually alongside and an astute operation by personnel of the Indian Navy and the Mumbai Fire Brigade manged to remove INS Sindhuratna to safety. Now, let's look at the Scorpene project under which six French-Spanish diesel-electric submarines were to be built at Mumbai's Mazagon Docks Limited with an option for another six. The deal was signed in 2005, but nine years later, not a single boat has hit the water due to procedural and bureaucratic delays. Originally slated for delivery from 2012, which has now been pushed back to 2016, the Scorpenes were meant to replace the ageing Soviet-era Kilo-class vessels -- which INS Sindhurakshak and INS Sindhuratna were -- of the Indian Navy, all of which are ending their normal 25-30-year service life. But why focus on submarines alone? As recently as Feb 24, the DAC failed to clear the navy's proposal for four amphibious warships and 16 multi-role helicopters with ASW (anti-submarine warfare) capabilities, among many other items also on the wishlists of the Indian Army and the Indian Air Force. Okay, it's been argued that since 10 accidents in seven months occurred during Admiral Joshi's watch, he should take the rap. In that case, under whose watch has the Indian Navy struggled to keep itself afloat and what penalty should this individual incur? But then, politicians say different rules apply to them. As a Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) leader famously said the other day: "Why should Narendra Modi be held responsible for the (2002) Gujarat riots? There were other officers to control the situation." There is one other aspect of defence acquisitions during Antony's watch. The tender for purchasing 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) was floated in 2005 and six manufacturers short-listed in 2007. The Dassault Rafale got the nod in 2012 but the contract is yet to be inked, apparently because of protracted negotiations on issues like the cost of transferring technology and life-cycle costs. It must be remembered that the MMRCA was meant to replace the IAF's fleet of the 1960s vintage MiG-21 combat jets that have been dubbed "flying coffins" due to their propensity to crash with maddening frequency. Does the DAC care for the lives of the IAF's young pilots? Apparently not, because what it has cleared is the purchase, among others, of three B-737 BBJs (Boeing Business Jets) for the IAF's Air Headquarters Communication Squadron that ferries dignitaries like the president, the vice president, the prime minister - and Antony himself. This purchase was on a single-vendor basis, meaning there was only one contender in the fray. India's Defence Procurement Policy expressly states that this route should be adopted only in exceptional and emergent situations. India also purchased three Phalcon AWACS (airborne warning and control systems) mounted on an IL-78 heavy-lift aircraft. This too was on a single-vendor system. Many wonder whether this system was needed at all! Then, a contract was signed for the purchase of 12 Agusta Westland VVIP helicopters, again for the Communication Squadron. This contract, which was cancelled last year on graft charges, also took the single-vendor route. Given Antony's track record on the armed forces' need for modernistion, the tactful thing for him to do was to persuade the admiral to stay and to promise to address his concerns. Instead, what did he do? He promptly accepted the resignation. As Admiral Arun Prakash, a former Indian Navy chief, succinctly put it: "If the chief resigns, it suits everyone." What this has also done is to puncture Antony's holier-than-thou halo. IANS.

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View attachment 9380
 
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aksha

Captain
INS Sindhuratna fire: cables to blame, not expired batteries, says initial probe
An early probe has revealed that the fire on board navy submarine INS Sindhuratna, which killed two officers, was due to faulty cables, and not expired batteries that had not been replaced, sources today said.

The cables in the third compartment of the vessel caught fire, sources said.
View attachment 9381
The two officers died saving their comrades from the fire that broke out on the submarine early Wednesday. They were reportedly trapped when a hatch slammed shut. Seven sailors were injured.

There was speculation that the vessel's batteries had not been replaced as the contract had not been finalized on time. Sources today said the contract was pending but the batteries were not the cause of the fire.

The battery was, in fact, borrowed from another submarine which is under refit. Sources say the battery had about 75 cycles to go and not beyond use.

Investigations are still on into the Sindhuratna fire and other accidents involving Kilo Class submarines of the Navy in the last seven months, they said.

After the Sindhuratna fire, Admiral DK Joshi resigned as Navy Chief taking responsibility for the accidents on his watch.

In August, the INS Sindhurakshak exploded and sank in the naval dockyard, killing 18 crewmen on board. The Sindhuratna was moored nearby and suffered minor fire damage when the Sindhurakshak exploded.
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there are already allegations that the govt. is trying to cover its faults in these incidents as usualView attachment 9379
Civilizations, like empire, fall, not so much because of the strength of the enemy outside as through the weakness and decay within – Jawaharlal Nehru
 
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aksha

Captain
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The Defence Ministry has ordered a CBI inquiry into the purchase of aero engines by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) from Rolls Royce, putting one of the world’s largest defence and aerospace companies under the scanner.
The inquiry has been ordered into alleged irregularities in purchases made over a four-year period, starting 2007, from the UK-based firm.
The order for an inquiry comes two weeks after arms dealer Sudhir Choudhrie and his son were arrested by the Serious Fraud Office (SFO) in the UK, which is probing serious bribery allegations in the sale of Rolls Royce engines in Asia.
Sources in the Defence Ministry said that the CBI probe was ordered after complaints alleged discrepancies in the contract for engines, and charged officials in HAL and the Defence Ministry with taking bribes.
The engines were procured for the Hawk Advanced Jet Trainer (AJT) that is being produced by HAL for the Air Force and Navy.
Rolls Royce has not yet commented on the Indian inquiry.
Sources said the allegations were probed by the chief vigilance officer of HAL, and a preliminary report shared with the Defence Ministry. With the report indicating that the charges were serious and had some basis, the ministry decided to order a CBI inquiry.
Choudhrie had been briefly arrested by the SFO in London and questioned on his association with Rolls Royce. The firm is under investigation for several deals, including sales in China and Indonesia.
While it is still not clear if the Indian investigation is linked to the SFO probe, the CBI has already sought information about Choudhrie’s arrest from their counterparts in the UK. The Enforcement Directorate, which is investigating the arms dealer’s money transactions, has also roped in the Customs Overseas Intelligence Network.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
INS Sindhuratna fire: cables to blame, not expired batteries, says initial probe there are already allegations that the govt. is trying to cover its faults in these incidents as usualView attachment 9379
Sad thing. It's very clear, IMHO, that the batteries and their maintenance is a critical issue.

The Kilo is a good submarine. But like any sophisticated vessel or weapon system it has to be properly maintained. You cannot take shortcuts in this business...or you court disaster.

Hopefullty the Indian Navy will demand, and get, a public accounting for and announcemnt of the real issues, and then be allowed to do what is necessary to address them.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Slow day on Indian Military news...so lets not forget...


Vikram-joint-01.jpg


Vikram-joint-02.jpg


Vikram-joint-07.jpg


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Franklin

Captain
The INS Vikramaditya suppose to have been on sea trial since 16 january and the first Indian piloted MiG-29K suppose to have landed on 7 february. The ship returned to port around the latter half of february. So that's a 30 to 40 days sea trial. So far we haven't seen any pictures or videos of it. And there was talk of her going to Mumbai to be officially inducted by the prime minister of India and later it was said that the prime minister of India would go on board the ship in the ocean for a visit or a ceremony but once again no picture or video or any conformation of either event. So you can ask what is going on.

But perhabs its also better this way no journalists, no interviews and no shows, just professionals getting on with their jobs.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
The INS Vikramaditya suppose to have been on sea trial since 16 january and the first Indian piloted MiG-29K suppose to have landed on 7 february. The ship returned to port around the latter half of february. So that's a 30 to 40 days sea trial. So far we haven't seen any pictures or videos of it.
I thought I had posted a couple of pics at the time, but also mentioned that I was not completely sure that they were the first Indian landings on the Vikramaditya because we do also have pistures of Indian pilots landing and practising on the Kuznetsov.

Anyhow, here one of the news stories, and they do have one of those pics I posted.

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Naval Open Source said:
An Indian MiG-29 naval jet landed on a refitted former Soviet aircraft carrier Friday, marking the first such operation since the ship was delivered by Russia to the south Asian nation earlier this year.

“An exciting event took place today – the first landing of an [Indian] MiG-29 piloted by an Indian pilot on the Vikramaditya,” Russia’s United Shipbuilding Corporation vice president Igor Ponomarev told reporters at the ongoing DEFEXPO-2014 exhibition in New Delhi.

The Vikramaditya, formerly known as the Admiral Gorshkov, was handed over to the Indian navy on November 16 at the Semvash shipbuilder and arrived at a naval base in Kanwar in the beginning of January.

Here's the three pics I have:


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And there was talk of her going to Mumbai to be officially inducted by the prime minister of India and later it was said that the prime minister of India would go on board the ship in the ocean for a visit or a ceremony but once again no picture or video or any conformation of either event. So you can ask what is going on.

But perhabs its also better this way no journalists, no interviews and no shows, just professionals getting on with their jobs.
I agree. The INdians do have their own naval photogrpahers aboard, but they are not making a big PR or Press deal out of these activities right now.

They did show off their dual carrier operations though.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
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Geez! those boys in the IN better get their act together. They seem to have good equipment but I think training and naval management may be lacking. As they increase the size of their fleet, accidents like this will become more frequent unless they concentrate as much on the organic side of things as well. Buying hardware is sexy but training, operational discipline and proper management is even more important IMO.

In yet another accident on board a naval warship, an officer was killed on the yet to be commissioned Kolkata class destroyer that is currently undergoing trials in Mumbai after a malfunction in its fire fighting system. The officer, identified as Commander Kuntal Vadhwa, died after a gas leak onboard the warship. Initial reports say four to five others have been injured in the mishap. They have been admitted to a Mumbai hospital.

The ship, currently designated Yard-701 by MDL Mazgaon Docks Limited that is constructing it was undergoing machinery trials in the Mumbai port trust when the incident took place.

MDL has said that the ship has ‘a malfunction in its Carbon Dioxide unit, leading to gas leakage. One naval officer and some MDL personnel were affected and have been hospitalised’.

However sources confirmed that a Commander level officer died after being hit by a carbon dioxide cylinder that apparently exploded due to a malfunction.

This is the latest in a spate of 2 dozen accidents that have hit the navy and led to the exit of navy chief admiral dk joshi last month.
 
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