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FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Then it is settled that a second Akula is going to be added?

IN would a second in leasing, as the first about 1 billion $ for 10 years, the best candidate would the Akula at Komsomolsk Na Amure, variant ? name Irbis ? the 9th build by this shipyard, construction stopped at 40/60%.

Russian Navy normaly do not want to separate a Akula.
 

asif iqbal

Banned Idiot
Then it is settled that a second Akula is going to be added?

Yeah Indian high command have pretty much confirmed that a single SSN is of no use the reality is they need a fleet of SSN not just one, the first INS Chakra was really for the Indian navy to get first hand experience in operating SSN

The deal for Ibris is unlikely they don't want another nightmare Vikramaditya and they can't afford the wait I think they are in final negotiations to get a second Akula what that happens to be we will have to wait and see

One thing is for sure Akula is a potent SSN will give China something to keep in mind
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
One thing is for sure Akula is a potent SSN will give China something to keep in mind
Well, having another one of these certainly would not hurt India's capabilities in the least.


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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
no, but it may hurt its budget and its economy
Oh, I doubt it.

The Indian economy is still expanding. Despite recent slow downs, they have been slow downs in the rate of expansion. The Indians are determined to at least keep up a pace militarily that will give pause to the Chinese if they cannot exactly keep pace with them.

Like the Chinese, they have to feed their economic expansion with resources if they hope to keep pace with it, and the sea lanes and avenues to those resources have to be protected. The Indians are much slower at developing their own indigenous capabilities in this regard (though they are making progress) so they purchase what they cannot produce from the Russians, and that means another Akula II, which is a very good solution indeed.
 

thunderchief

Senior Member
Looks like India will have to cut one of their biggest fighter purchases : either Rafale or PAK FA . Lobbyists for both sides are working frantically . Consider these two articles with opposing conclusions :p

Russia can't deliver on Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft: IAF

The Indian Air Force alleges Russians reluctant to share critical design information, besides technical and cost issues

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has done a stunning about-turn, sharply criticising the showpiece Indo-Russian project to co-develop a futuristic Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA). Even as New Delhi and Moscow finalise a $6 billion deal to co-develop an FGFA with capabilities tailor-made for India, the IAF has alleged the Russians would be unable to meet their promises about its performance.

So vital is the FGFA considered for the IAF's future that Defence Minister A K Antony has publicly rejected any prospect of buying the American fifth generation F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, declaring the FGFA would suffice. In 2007, New Delhi and Moscow highlighted the fighter's criticality by signing an Inter Governmental Agreement (IGA) placing the project above MoD procurement rules. Moreover, Indian scientists say the expertise gained from the FGFA will provide crucial momentum for developing an all-Indian fifth generation fighter, designated the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).........

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dna exclusive: 100% price escalation on Rafale fighter aircraft to Rs 1.75 lakh crore likely to dent IAF's strike capability

India’s biggest deal of procuring 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) for $18 billion (Rs90,000 crore) has hit rough weather. Two years after French aircraft maker Dassault Aviation bagged the deal for its Rafale fighter jets on account of being the lowest bidder, its cost has now shot up by 100 per cent.

In January 2012, when Rafale was declared the winner, its price was quoted between $60-65 million (Rs373-Rs400 crore). A top defence ministry official said the price of a fighter jet made by Dassault could now cost $120 million (Rs746 crore). The second bidder, Eurofighter, had quoted $80-85 million (Rs497-Rs528 crore).

The price hike would mean that the deal would cost India nothing less than $28-30 billion (Rs1.75 lakh crore-Rs1.86 lakh crore),” said an Indian Air Force (IAF) official, who is privy to discussions of the cost negotiation committee.

The defence ministry headed by AK Antony has developed cold feet after the cost doubled compared to the original estimate. With the general elections just months away, Antony is unsure about the fate of the deal, a defence ministry official said. “As the negotiations continue, the cost is spiralling out of hand. It is a major worry,” he said.
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Jeff Head

General
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Fox News said:
Despite initial high expectations, the Indian Air Force appears to be souring on a joint development deal with Russia for a new fifth-generation fighter jet, according to the Business Standard, a major Indian business publication. The Russian prototype is "unreliable, its radar inadequate, its stealth features badly engineered,” said Indian Air Force Deputy Air Marshall S Sukumar at a Jan. 15 meeting, according to minutes obtained by the Business Standard.

That contrasts sharply with high hopes voiced by the Indian government when the joint project, to which the Indian government has contributed $6 billion, began.

“The new plane will have advanced features such as stealth, supercruise, ultra-maneuvrability, highly integrated avionics suite, enhanced situational awareness, internal carriage of weapons and Network Centric Warfare capabilities,” the Indian government said in a December 2010 press release. Those are all hallmarks of “fifth generation” aircraft.

The Indian Air Force did not respond to a request for comment.

But it is hardly surprising that the invisible-to-radar Russian fighter planes don't quite live up to the billing, according to defense experts reached by FoxNews.com.

“The Russians are certainly not up to speed in avionics,” Robbin Laird, who has served as a consultant to the Marine Corps and Air Force and started the website Second Line of Defense, told FoxNews.com. “For them to pull off a stealth airframe, and for it to actually be stealthy, the engine technology has to be very good. Americans have done it with the F-22 and F-35. But it’s not easy to do. No one has done it but ourselves.”

India is the largest arms importer in world, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, and its military import large amounts from both Russia and western countries.

“The Indians for a long time have split their fighter industry between western work and Russian work,” Laird said.

“Clearly they want to go more Western because they recognize that the Russian stuff just isn't up to the western standards. You only have so much money to go around, and like everybody else they've got financial pressures,” he added.

Other security experts said that India has a history of incompetence when it comes to military procurement, and so it did not necessarily reflect badly on Russia.

“India has had so many problems absorbing modern equipment and supporting it that it’s difficult to know whether it says anything about the Russian systems at all,” Anthony Cordesman, who has served as a consultant for the State and Defense departments and who holds the Burke Chair in Strategy at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, told FoxNews.com.

Laird said that the Indians may be souring on the Russian deal in part to save funds so they can build more French-designed Dassault Rafale fighter jets, which can be built relatively quickly, unlike the still-to-be-designed “fifth-generation” planes under development with the Russians.

“The Rafale is a very nice aircraft, and they'll look at all the stuff the French are putting on that aircraft, and they'll look at the Russian stuff and say, why am I going down that path? Do I trust the Russians really are going to reach to the standards we set?”

Laird said that India would be best off purchasing the already-developed fifth-generation Lockheed Martin F-35 – but that the United States government had not given permission for such a sale, even though Indian officials had asked several times to be able to consider the plane.

“If they get a chance to really look at the F35, they would want it," Laird said. "The Indians have requested 3 times to talk to people about the F-35B, which is the true revolutionary aircraft -- and the administration never answered the mail, they've blown them off, it's typical of the Obama administration. We love our allies except if you want anything.”

He added that India may in fact not be at the level where it should be trusted with F-35s, however, so the administration would be right to turn them down. But he argued that the F-35 is ahead of what Russia has.

“The Russians are good aircraft designers, and they know how to build an agile aircraft, and [the new plane they are working on] is a step forward the path of more agility and flexibility, but the problem is -- it's not all about the frame, it's about what your put in it. The F35 can see around itself, 360 degrees, can see a missile take off 820 miles away, it has a radar that's extraordinary, and the systems are integrated. The Russians I think are nowhere near that at this point.”

Laird admitted that there was a kind of “ho-hum” aspect to those types of features, but said that the information they provide to pilots and commanders would pay off in a combat situation.

Cordesman also said that he was unsurprised by the Indian complaints, given what he knew about Russian air capabilities.

“They’re very good at building airplanes,” Cordesman said. “The problem that Russia, since the collapse of the former Soviet Union, has been putting out the military equivalent of show cars. They look good, but it isn’t always clear how practical they are and how many of the specifications they can actually meet.”
 
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