Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Gloire_bb

Colonel
Registered Member
I doubt the R-37M will be exported(India claims Algeria MKA got them but there is no evidence of it) and it will be depedent on whatever radar the Indians chose to upgrade the MKI. If it doesn't have enough range, it doesn't make sense and there is a reason why the Russians didn't bother to integrate R-37's on the original Su-30SM.

And I don't think the RVV-BD is a thing outside of mock-ups for now. They'll probably try to force things with the Astra
RVV-BD is literally R-37M, export variant. Yes, it's 100% on sale. It's just relatively new, and overall it's CAATSA era stuff.
R-37M wasn't integrated to original Su-30SM b/c weapon integration upgrade to Su-30SM(which predates R-37M by several years; 1.5 decades in case of Su-30MKI) is called Su-30SM2...

India at this point visibly wanted to just live "as is" to Astra mk.2/3, but that turned out to be a 10+ year wait without adequate upgrade(Su-30MKI is 2001 aircraft, so MLU normally should've been around 2016), and counting. Now it's 2026, and MKI in most aspects other than stand off/strategic strike is still no different from early 2000s.
 

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
Honestly I don't see J-10C being so quickly phased out of PLAAF. It needs a cheaper single engine fighter.

Unless UADFs (single WS-10 engine powered) can replace J-10's role, there is always a need for a fighter with a fraction of the operational cost as J-16 and twin engined 5th gens. UADFs are slightly smaller than J-10 (they're roughly JF-17/Gripen sized) and designed to be stealthy. I mean they went to the trouble of making them tailless and supersonic capable. I don't think hanging larger SOWs will be done for UADFs for ground strike role and doubt they're able to fly as far as J-10C with drop tanks.

It'll be some years before China can totally phase out of single engine and go full high end only for PLAAF due to range and payload requirements while logistics for supporting an entirely twin engine manned fighter fleet is doable.

As a matter of fact, we do know that China certainly isn't developing any manned fighters with only one engine going forward (except the purported S/VTOL warplane, albeit with the PLANMC being the only potential customer by the looks of it). Besides, it is also not an exaggeration to say that it's only a matter of time before the larger and heavier UADFs are developed to become more advanced and more capable than the J-10 family in comprehensive terms.

Thus, it is (once again) a matter of time before the J-35A takes over the roles of the J-10 family in the PLAAF. In fact, I don't think we should expect the J-10 family to have a significant presence within the PLAAF beyond the mid-2030s.

In the meantime, assuming that the J-10B sale to Indonesia does go through, then the J-10As can be relegated for storage in boneyards as spare part sources, converted to target drones, or sold to friendly-yet-broke countries at huge discounts. That means retaining the 200+ J-10Cs in second-line or reserve units to serve as daily interception or low-intensity missions (which should be adequate).

Moreover, a lot of the interception and long-range patrol missions around and past the 1IC are more often done by the Sino-Flankers, thanks to their inherent range and endurance advantages. So if the PLAAF wants something cheaper to perform these tasks in the coming years, there are always the J-11BG/BHG and the J-16 to fall back to, of which the latter can still actually fly beyond 2050.
 
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siegecrossbow

Field Marshall
Staff member
Super Moderator
lol that class of Jai Hind is something else.

It's remarkable to think how far ahead China is. Even ignoring J-20 and J-35, PLAAF has close to 1000 4.5 gen fighters in J-16 series, J-10C and J-15B/T. This is also all in service today, trained up, weaponised and tactics formed long ago.

By the time IAF receives 150 Rafales, PLAAF will have over 1500 4.5 gen fighters and well over 1000 5th gen fighters. Since it'll take France and India over 10 years to complete delivery of 150 new Rafales. It's likely PLAAF will be flying at least two 6th gen fighters in active service in 10 years time.

As for today, it's 1000+ 4.5 gens in PLAAF service with a great portion of that fleet able to fire PL-17 missiles which greatly outranges anything Rafale has and has got planned. PL-15 and PL-16 hold their own against Meteor. India pays through the nose for each Meteor and the money and time taken for every Meteor reaching IAF service, China puts dozens of PL-15/16 and dozens of PL-17. It's not even a comparison. May as well compared USA with New Zealand in depth and production rate.

IAF is collectively about the strength of 1/50 PLAAF if even that. Right now, IAF only has less than 36 Rafales and not that many Meteors to spare. PLAAF has 1000 4.5 gens and approaching 500 5th gens which are multiple times the effectiveness of 4.5 gens. If we factor in airborne support units, the comparative ratio isn't even 1/50 it would be 1/100 if not worse for IAF.

There will be J-36/J-50 in LRIP when 150 Rafales are delivered. That’s like a gap of two generations. Not even PLAAF vs USAF circa 2008 was this hopeless.
 
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_killuminati_

Captain
Registered Member
Pakistan has no ability to pay for 5th gen fighters, even affordable ones. Countries like Canada struggle to put together funds for a handful of F-35s. Pakistan has the GDP of a second tier Canadian city.
This line of thinking is prevalent in Indian media for decades. On the contrary, PAF has gone through numerous acquisitions involving thousands of aircrafts in the same decades. Pakistan military's pockets go very deep and because of their involvement in politics, they don't like to disclose this information. They have very lucrative business ventures in the country that generate a lot of income, and the black economy in Pakistan is probably 2-3 times greater than it's actual on-paper economy. In fact, if you add up all the military acquisitions of the past 15-20 years, you may find that it doesn't really fit into the defence budget at all.
 

neutralobserver

Junior Member
Registered Member
This line of thinking is prevalent in Indian media for decades. On the contrary, PAF has gone through numerous acquisitions involving thousands of aircrafts in the same decades. Pakistan military's pockets go very deep and because of their involvement in politics, they don't like to disclose this information. They have very lucrative business ventures in the country that generate a lot of income, and the black economy in Pakistan is probably 2-3 times greater than it's actual on-paper economy. In fact, if you add up all the military acquisitions of the past 15-20 years, you may find that it doesn't really fit into the defence budget at all.
Just ignore these comments bro. I’ve noticed this trend quite often on this forum. Pakistan is underestimated and it’s not hard to see why. Indian media, backed by a population of over a billion has been effective at shaping perceptions and spreading Indian Propaganda. Canada is having issues with funding because they face no real threat so there is no urgency. They'd buy them in a heartbeat if they were facing an enemy 10x its size on their borders with genocidal intentions... The idea that India could simply steamroll Pakistan is so fucking stupid that I don't even want to argue here. A country that imports 80%+ of its weapons cannot steamroll another nuclear power with strong conventional forces (Not even taking into account tactical nuclear weapons which fundamentally change that equation and Pakistan built them specifically to take out large Indian Armoured Formations.) Additionally, Pakistan has financed its J-10s and they are not hand-me-down aid or charity. Yes, it’s a loan but one that is being repaid with interest. Let them live in their bubble.
 

_killuminati_

Captain
Registered Member
Not again ... India demands this and that!

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This base was targetted in May last year. Not the ideal place for MRO of your top fighter, imo. It is within range of Pak artillery and surface launched cruise missiles.

I'm wondering now how this new demand of integrating French equipment with Russian equipment work. Previously, Dassault had refused to share source codes at Indian request, the most recent request denial in May 2025. Has that changed now with the new Rafale deal? afaik, Rafales cannot carry a Russian payload.
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Gloire_bb

Colonel
Registered Member
This line of thinking is prevalent in Indian media for decades. On the contrary, PAF has gone through numerous acquisitions involving thousands of aircrafts in the same decades. Pakistan military's pockets go very deep and because of their involvement in politics, they don't like to disclose this information. They have very lucrative business ventures in the country that generate a lot of income, and the black economy in Pakistan is probably 2-3 times greater than it's actual on-paper economy. In fact, if you add up all the military acquisitions of the past 15-20 years, you may find that it doesn't really fit into the defence budget at all.
Adding to that - it isn't just Indian media, it's negative pushback of long line of propaganda, both positive(US: 5th gen is expensive, no one else can afford it) and negative(F-35 is expensive, no one can afford it). Adjusted for chained dollars(i.e. in modern USD), F-22 wasn't the most expensive US fighter jet, it was early F-14A together with F-14D.

5th gen jets don't cost special money compared to previous generation examples. Yes, they're far more maintenance heavy - but maintenance heavy jets existed before as well.
J-10(CE) and J-35 fundamentally carry most of the same subsystems, and there's no special price differential between two.
Yes, J-35 airframe is more interesting - but with well oiled production line, it honestly doesn't matter too much. Otherwise, it's price of second(but smaller/cheaper) engine, and EODAS (set of good wide angle IR cameras). Not exactly a dealbreaker.

Pakistan is an economy which consistently can afford modern fighter procurement. Yes, it's very poor per capita; individual citizens don't buy fighter jets, country does. And Pakistani economy is bigger than lower part of the list of F-35 buyers(sits right on top of Czech republic, in fact). Pakistan's economy is also larger than economy of Algeria(su-57e).

Ultimately, fighters aren't supercarriers - it was always a force generation (common sense), rather than absolute restriction. But in a scenario, where force multipliers (stealth jets) improve the whole force more than a larger procurement of more modest jets - it's honestly a dead argument.
 
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Puss in Boots

Junior Member
Registered Member
J-10(CE) and J-35 fundamentally carry most of the same subsystems, and there's no special price differential between two.
The selling price of the J-35 will be at least as high as the price France charged India for the Rafale — the flyaway cost alone exceeding $100 million per unit, and with full supporting systems and facilities, the average unit price will be at least $200 million.
I need to be very clear with you: the J-35 will inevitably be far more expensive than the J-10. The price China offered Pakistan for the J-10 was already a friendship price. Expecting to get the J-35 for anything close to that is simply impossible.
When you buy a fifth-generation fighter, you’re not just purchasing an aircraft — you’re buying one of the very few tickets available worldwide to the next-generation air superiority club. This isn’t something you can acquire just because you want it and have the money; the most critical factor is whether the seller is willing to let you have it.
 
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