Wait, did they just admit the export version of the PL-15 is superior??
Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
- Thread starter bd popeye
- Start date
You'd think that India would have figured out by now that their ambitions of domestic military production are crippled by their lack of industrial capability. So it's a bit of a mystery why they haven't done anything about it but can still accomplish anything.
Marut, whatever was left of it, was clearly wasted before Tejas. Step too long, step too far.
Also, Tejas is on path for both, so it isn't fair to compare them just yet.
Both Marut and Tejas were partially crippled, but Tejas seems to get out of hell with mk.1a. Still largely on foreign components, but persistence itself is a merit.
So are engineers, which now oversaw full development cycle right to the viable product.
This is from the ruling political party of India.
Chinese ships and aircraft never interact with Indian ones unlike the Japanese, Americans, Australians, Canadians, etc.
Yet, there is this need to continually lie to the world to gain a perception advantage in comparison to China. The only challenge from India to China is on the propaganda front.
Chinese ships and aircraft never interact with Indian ones unlike the Japanese, Americans, Australians, Canadians, etc.
Yet, there is this need to continually lie to the world to gain a perception advantage in comparison to China. The only challenge from India to China is on the propaganda front.
the comments on that post are refreshingly sane. there's hope yet.
The failure of the Tejas program to leverage on the experiences of the Marut is actually quite a damning testimony on India's technological and industrial progress. This is not exclusive to their fighter jet program. They have gone from INSAS to begging for ToT for AK rifles. They have gone from producing the Vijayanta MBT to the failed Arjun, to now assembling more T-90s.
India had access to nearly all the advanced military export technology from both the West and Russia. Yet it had failed to pick up on those technologies and moved forward from there. In the early 1950s, India had greater industrial capacity than China and South Korea. In the 1960s, India was already producing it's own fighter jets and MBTs, albeit with plenty of foreign assistance. But by the 2010s China and South Korea were already mass producing their own indigenous designs and exporting them world wide. While India was relying more and more on imports. I think it's not just an industrial capacity issue, but a whole nation issue.
The West and Russia can keep hyping India up as this next big thing. But the facts on the ground points to general stagnation and in many cases, atrophy. This problem is not in ability, but in the mindset and leadership.
LoL! They can't even master assault rifle technology. And now they want to reverse-engineer the minature AESA radar and missile rocket engine from the PL-15E. I can only wish them Jai Hind!
my impression is that marut was very much a kurt tank thing. think about the context right, like kurt tank is a seasoned wartime designer that, despite being excommunicated from mainstream aeronautics, is still operating at a competitive level. and he's trying to make do with technicians from a barely fledged state. i think to expect the indians to have learned much from that experience would be unfair; it would be like a maestro telling a total beginner to "pay attention because im only doing this once!"
but yeah there's definitely a pattern of indians constantly setting unrealistic goals that seems to suggest deeper issues with social norms or something.
Forgive me ,but what is a"TruVal" rating-it sounds like something one would look up when buying a used car.
BTW ,Chinese aircraft and missiles DID "interact" with indian jets May 7 in Operation Cinder...ops Sindoor.
Well if the Indians didn't have enough time to learn from Kurt Tank on fighter design, then what about the Chinese learning how to build the J-7 from partial collaboration with the Soviets? The Soviets had suddenly pulled out of the Mig-21 license manufacturing program with the Chinese. Leaving them with a few fully constructed airframes and partial design documentation. Chinese designers had to painfully fill in the gaps. We can say that China was dealt a worse hand than India. By contrast, India had managed to complete the Marut development cycle and produced more than a hundred airframes.
So in my opinion it's just excuses. If India wants to claim to be a superpower, with the "3rd best airforce in the world". Losing the technological and industrial momentum since Marut is unacceptable.
Solving J-7 took China like 2 decades, and was rather controversial (independent attempt to go all-weather interceptor route never really worked out, for example).
But J-7 wasn't there in a vacuum (J-6 was there, alive and kicking), and more importantly, process was gradual and staged: Vanilla J-8 isn't exactly a step too far from J-7, nor is something like J-7E.
Tejas was born far too late for Marut expertice to transfer, and was far too much of a jump (Marut is, at best, J-6 level aircraft, and after that Indians decided that they're good to directly jump to aircraft far more advanced than M2000), with own engine, radar and everything. Everything was in addition to rather unhealthy climate (China fights mostly proxy wars in the air, and is nuclear; India isn't nuclear, fights directly and can't really afford being late).
Furthermore, China remembers well being chocked between early 1960s and late 1970s; India always had international aid to rely on.
Frankly speaking, it's a bit of a miracle (and persistence) anything worked out at all - such projects usually fail altogether.