Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

burritocannon

Junior Member
Registered Member
70 years ago, India built a very decent fighter-bomber, the Marut. Of course, it used the services of Kurt Tank and used Olympus engines. Unfortunately, it was slow for fighter missions, because Britain refused to sell a version with afterburner and the speed ended up just below the sound barrier. India tried to develop afterburner itself, unfortunately it did not succeed. But the aircraft was used in the wars with Pakistan and was satisfied with it.
The Russians bet everything on the engines during development and finished the airframes later, because they could do them. Their approach turned out to be more far-sighted. So, it all starts with the engines And India did not manage to do that.
thanks for bringing this up because i also intended to ask about what seems to me india's curious aversion from pursuing aeroengine industry. i think any student of aeronautical history will quickly realize that engine technology is one of the most critical and foundational pillars of aeronautics. and like you point out, the indians should have learned this lesson themselves a long time ago when all the engines the marut was designed for fell through. in contrast, the turks understand that their indigenous kaan needs an indigenous engine, and its already been justified by the recent us denials to engine deliveries for turkey.
so what is india's view on aeroengines? do they seriously think airplanes are about simply airframes?
it would be extremely troubling if so, because that would place them deeply in cargocult mentality.
 

_killuminati_

Senior Member
Registered Member
Coming to terms/learning to overcome the position is also experience.

For better or worse, Tejas mostly broke delusions in Indian MIC about itself(society is another matter, but this is beyond what an aircraft can teach), and yet it almost produced something that appears to be a reasonable light fighter (mk.1a).
Not world beater, not leader in class (mk.2 won't get there either), but if it won't be terribly unreliable/unfit for service - it'll do.

And this is a huge step forward - once done, it can be done again.
I'd argue the HAL Marut, despite being unsatisfactory, was more successful than the Tejas. Atleast it got manufactured in decent numbers and experienced operational combat.

Building on the Marut experience, the Tejas program should've been better, not equal or worse. It seems like the argument from the Indian side is that they are repeating that huge step forward with no actual change in progression.

thanks for bringing this up because i also intended to ask about what seems to me india's curious aversion from pursuing aeroengine industry. i think any student of aeronautical history will quickly realize that engine technology is one of the most critical and foundational pillars of aeronautics. and like you point out, the indians should have learned this lesson themselves a long time ago when all the engines the marut was designed for fell through. in contrast, the turks understand that their indigenous kaan needs an indigenous engine, and its already been justified by the recent us denials to engine deliveries for turkey.
so what is india's view on aeroengines? do they seriously think airplanes are about simply airframes?
it would be extremely troubling if so, because that would place them deeply in cargocult mentality.
The idea of Kaveri seems reasonable. I think what is missing was the entire industrial capacity behind it - the techs itself, material sciences, electronics, internal components, etc - they are not up to par yet.
 
Last edited:

Ringsword

Senior Member
Registered Member
There were German engineers developing engines for Marut in a joint project in Egypt. The same Junkers team who developed the NK-12 for the Tu-95. But Egypt ran out of money and India did not fork out money when requested. So the engine was cancelled.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
This was the time when india SHOULD have put some money-no matter how difficult- into developing/finish developing that engine-imagine the success and ecosystem that would have been developed over 50 years but now after that missed golden opportunity the frantic bleatings/hysterical wailings about joint-ventures and transfer of technology isn't going to happen and isn't RAM coatings significant as well as geometry/shaping -IIRC it isn't just 1 thing only,i.e the 5 "S"'s of 5gen stealth.
 

Ringsword

Senior Member
Registered Member
This is absolute clownery. The hard part is not knowing what's in it. The hard part is mass producing those things with low failure rates.
When I read that the PL15 had no self-destruct I knew it was bullshit-a few propellant husks and scrap metal after it destroyed IAF jets is all they got and now this ?How many decades will it be before we see an actual Astra AAM?
 
Top