Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

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valysre

Junior Member
Registered Member
GiantPanda said:
I think without extraordinary outside support which the Tejas got (foreign engine, avionics, radar, ejection seat, even nosecone,...) as a signature project, I believe India's aviation industry cannot even productionize a new equivalent of a Y-12.
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On the contrary, without the outside support that the Indian aviation industry has been able to rely on for all developments since the 1960s, the Indian aviation industry would be much stronger than it is now. By being forced to use a less ideal engine for a while, or subpar radar for a few years, internal development would have been much more advanced than it is now.

The situation of the Indian aviation industry right now is a consequence of excessive support and "readily available" superior foreign alternatives since the inception of the industry. Imagine giving an infant leg braces before they can walk; can we be surprised when the moment the leg braces are removed, they can no longer stand upright?

This is again why the IAF will never have quality aircraft with reasonable electronics, armament, propulsion, etc. integration without serious change in the way that the Indian procurement thought process goes. The default cannot be "oooh a foreign option that is so good in so many ways, that will beat everything our adversaries might have."
 
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Aegrotare

New Member
Registered Member
valysre said:
On the contrary, without the outside support that the Indian aviation industry has been able to rely on for all developments since the 1960s, the Indian aviation industry would be much stronger than it is now. By being forced to use a less ideal engine for a while, or subpar radar for a few years, internal development would have been much more advanced than it is now.

The situation of the Indian aviation industry right now is a consequence of excessive support and "readily available" superior foreign alternatives since the inception of the industry. Imagine giving an infant leg braces before they can walk; can we be surprised when the moment the leg braces are removed, they can no longer stand upright?

This is again why the IAF will never have quality aircraft with reasonable electronics, armament, propulsion, etc. integration without serious change in the way that the Indian procurement thought process goes. The default cannot be "oooh a foreign option that is so good in so many ways, that will beat everything our adversaries might have."
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Is this really true? There are lots of countrys that do what India does right now , but are far more succesfull. Japan, Taiwan or South Korea or Israel for example. The problem seems to be the bad managemend of India and not the strategy for their fighter programms.
 
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valysre

Junior Member
Registered Member
Aegrotare said:
Is this really true? There are lots of countrys that do what India does right now , but are far more succesfull. Japan, Taiwan or South Korea or Israel for example. The problem seems to be the bad managemend of India and not the strategy for their fighter programms.
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The countries you cite have strong domestic electronics industries, much stronger than India. None of them have the issue of needing to appear independent of the US, or another foreign power (which is a sizable factor in Indian procurement). India is in a unique position, and unfortunately many of the Indian procurement decisions are at odds with either this unique position, or some basic realities of military procurement.
 
Gloire_bb

Gloire_bb

Major
Registered Member
valysre said:
India is in a unique position, and unfortunately many of the Indian procurement decisions are at odds with either this unique position, or some basic realities of military procurement.
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Coming to terms/learning to overcome the position is also experience.

For better or worse, Tejas mostly broke delusions in Indian MIC about itself(society is another matter, but this is beyond what an aircraft can teach), and yet it almost produced something that appears to be a reasonable light fighter (mk.1a).
Not world beater, not leader in class (mk.2 won't get there either), but if it won't be terribly unreliable/unfit for service - it'll do.

And this is a huge step forward - once done, it can be done again.
 
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Ringsword

Senior Member
Registered Member
Ringsword said:
WELL this a "joint-venture and transfer of technology" with ...Cessna.Impressive but Cessna has moved on.
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Don't laugh as Mathias Rust in 1987 flew Cessna 127P from Germany to Moscow via Finland penetrating the vaunted Soviet PVO defences-perhaps now india will order 250 Cessnas for only 50 billion USD.Its a great deal
 
Deino

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Guys, the last few pages are almost completely on anything but NEWS!

Keep in mind, what’s the topic!
 
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Racek49

New Member
Registered Member
Gloire_bb said:
Coming to terms/learning to overcome the position is also experience.

For better or worse, Tejas mostly broke delusions in Indian MIC about itself(society is another matter, but this is beyond what an aircraft can teach), and yet it almost produced something that appears to be a reasonable light fighter (mk.1a).
Not world beater, not leader in class (mk.2 won't get there either), but if it won't be terribly unreliable/unfit for service - it'll do.

And this is a huge step forward - once done, it can be done again.
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70 years ago, India built a very decent fighter-bomber, the Marut. Of course, it used the services of Kurt Tank and used Olympus engines. Unfortunately, it was slow for fighter missions, because Britain refused to sell a version with afterburner and the speed ended up just below the sound barrier. India tried to develop afterburner itself, unfortunately it did not succeed. But the aircraft was used in the wars with Pakistan and was satisfied with it.
The Russians bet everything on the engines during development and finished the airframes later, because they could do them. Their approach turned out to be more far-sighted. So, it all starts with the engines And India did not manage to do that.
 
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