Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

defenceman

Junior Member
Registered Member
Hi,
probably France want to complete the remaining order of Rafale jets before
they give away source code for meteor for IAF this way France still has the edge
of keeping Rafale option for india beyond the current order
thank you
 

Lethe

Captain
NDTV is proudly showcasing the production line of the Tejas Mk1A.

NDTV is also happy to announce that Tejas Mk2 is projected to begin it's maiden flight by the end of this year. Then the Mk2 is expected to be ready for manufacture by 2030.

As of
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, Mk. 2 was targeting rollout by early 2026 and first flight by the end of that year. So either something altogether unprecedented has occurred to bring those timelines forward in recent months or, more likely, NDTV has their wires crossed. Notably, the "end of the year" date given @04:42 for first flight of Mk. 2 was not a direct statement by HAL Director D. K. Sunil, but an NDTV voiceover derived from who knows what.

EDIT: From the
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, it is clear that NDTV has misinterpreted HAL Director D. K. Sunil's comments. He said that the first Mk. 2 prototype should rollout by the end of this financial year, which is 31st March 2026 (which aligns with the above linked article from a few months back). He also says that first flight should then occur by the "end of the year, early next year". NDTV has interpreted this as referring to first flight by the end of this year, when he was actually referring to first flight by the end of 2026 or early 2027 (again in line with the above linked article). While the relevant line is somewhat ambiguous, the context around it (including discussion of a six month delay between rollout and first flight) makes the true meaning clear, and NDTV has simply got it wrong in their condensed presentation.
 
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Nevermore

Junior Member
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If India's purchase of the Su-57 is merely to gain access to Russian fighter jet technology, that approach seems reasonable. But if they expect the Su-57 to dominate Pakistan's air force, they must be out of their minds. Oh, and the article repeatedly emphasizes the Su-57's poor stealth performance.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
If India's purchase of the Su-57 is merely to gain access to Russian fighter jet technology, that approach seems reasonable. But if they expect the Su-57 to dominate Pakistan's air force, they must be out of their minds. Oh, and the article repeatedly emphasizes the Su-57's poor stealth performance.

No matter how poor it is the RCS is still better than 4.5 gen by several magnitude.
 

Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
No matter how poor it is the RCS is still better than 4.5 gen by several magnitude.
The level of stealth on Su-57 can probably be maintained without cumbersome maintenances, high tech moisture/weather controlled hangar. It looks like it follow the regular Russian principles of a rugged system. Not top of the line stealth but good enough to be like you said : <better than 4.5 gen by several magnitude>

For India with all their maintenances problems, I would bet on a low maintenance design way more than an hangar queen design.
 

PeaceKrieger424

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Plus SU-57 carries the R-37M with an alleged BVR range of 400 kms.
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Not to mention how the ToT which comes along with this platform. For India’s AMCA ambitions, together with a potential Safran-JV this diversifies local engine building options in the future.
 

Mt1701d

Junior Member
Registered Member
Not to mention how the ToT which comes along with this platform. For India’s AMCA ambitions, together with a potential Safran-JV this diversifies local engine building options in the future.
ToT may still be an issue. The original deal for the SU-57 collapsed partly because of that, tho I would imagine the Russians will be more accommodating this time round.

The French however is difficult to say, how much tech a potential JV will actually transfer is still questionable. The Indians have a tendency to expect the other side to literally strip to their underwear or even further, while the other side most definitely have other ideas.

The likelihood of any potential JV negotiations to breakdown due to ridiculous Indian expectations is highly likely. I remember with regards to the ‘assembled in India’ Rafale deal, where despite India demanding HAL be the sole assembler, Dassault had to, not only guarantee quality but take on any and all liability should there be failures.
 

Gloire_bb

Major
Registered Member
My reading is su-57 was never planned as penetrator strike aircraft, or even OFCA. Thus - when in offensive role, there is very high attention to stand off munitions (LACM, loitering munitions, glide bombs, VLRAAM - almost no internal stand in direct attack weapons!), no internal EOTS (targeting pod for safe scenarios only). Moderate defensive stealth.
Penetrator role is expensive, high risk/high reward task, and sending few available 5th gen aircraft (or any aircraft) into blue airspace, against much larger air order of battle, was probably seen as waste of a very limited, irreplaceable force resource.
Another detail here - Russia earlier than most others added S-70 into the equation.

I.e. it's a specialized DEFCA "hunter" in hunter-killer teams (with su-35s and their powerful radars), aimed to close emerging gaps for IADS v. stealth intrusion (F-35). I.e. it's a specialist force multiplier versus NATO, aimed to deny it its greatest strength.
Just as Su-35s was aimed, to a large degree, to tie down few available raptors under GCI guidance (not fight them equally, just deny them one-sided high altitude dominance over red airspace), together with (mostly) S-400s. Threat evolved (F-35 force numbering thousands), so the shield had to evolve, too.

Su-57 stealth is good enough to outrange detection by intruding blue VLO strike fighters x- band sets (via L band) in favourable conditions (LPI mode) over friendly territory. In a much wider deg sector (270 deg v 120 deg) than them, while simultaneously guiding 4++ gen killers(same su-35 with bruteforce irbis sets) to attack identified targets.
If things went wrong and it got caught anyway - powerful, 360 deg broadband EW, IR jamming and goot kinematic/maneuvering performance to get out.

At the same time - superior range and range:speed performance, esp. for strategic maneuver (enough range to cross Russia from side to side in one flight).

Notably, per silentflanker simulations, Su-57 does quite well v. 4...1.5 ghz, i.e. versus AWACS planes working from extended ranges. And this is one of more believable notions - in lower bands, much of criticism against his models is much less valid. And, unlike others, Su-57 also jams S/L band, too. Just to be sure.

TLDR: Very Russian need v. NATO, and indeed it's kind of super rafale in all imaginable ways.
Problem is selling such a tailor made aircraft - expensive aircraft - to others. And here it's kind of cought into su-35s trap - it's multirole and viable, but it isn't really great at performance metrics market expects.
India, ideally, needs a very normal aircraft. Their main opponent is Pakistan, Pakistan isn't a nation India needs to desperately defend against. they want to do Israeli things to them. Su-57 isn't delivering that.
China is a better sell for this capability, but i never saw any Indian calculations for full on Chinese aerial/ground offensive right through Himalayas (one wonders why). And in any case, to make it viable, su-57 is a tip of the spear. You must heavily invest into IADS first.

As such, for IAF it's a bit of mixed bag - better Rafale is very attractive to have, but they are fully commited to a normal one already, including basing domestic aircraft off its technology. And now IAF is in a limbo - Rafale itself is like an Oak tree - it's french weapon ecosystem is very incompatible with anything non-french, and slowly kills anything around; israeli towed decoy is a very telling story.

From this PoV, Su-57 delays meant it came just too late - and its tech/tech transfer isn't exactly magical over well developed and already integrated rafale.
At the same time, IAF really needs just a goddamn better plane, ASAP. 2024-25 was non-stop series of shocks for them urgently telling that and just that. Add in powerful lobbies, very vocal indian politics and external pressures, and it is not a nice position for a humble bureaucrat to be in.

Plus SU-57 carries the R-37M with an alleged BVR range of 400 kms.
It does, but only external and only as backwards compatibility feature. Ultimately it's a previous gen weapon from 2010s. Su-57 has its own VLRAAM, known as article 810, which is both more ambitious and fits inside.
ToT may still be an issue. The original deal for the SU-57 collapsed partly because of that, tho I would imagine the Russians will be more accommodating this time round.
It was some sort of excuse negitiation at that point.
Indians were very unsatisfied with su-57 stealth performance, delays and risks (especially after famous engine flameout during demonstration, which was probably supposed to show that program is going forward). At the same time, Indians really, really needed aircraft in original timeframe (not like IAF were blind during Balakot strikes that they're one weapon generation behind Pakistan); Su-57 looked like a failed bet.

Russia was already not willing to make a separate, very different Indian version out of its own pocket, and ToT requirement for miniscule indian investment into that program was outright laughable (IAF isn't getting anything from French for much older and inferior aircraft, for many times the money...they aren't even getting proper system integrations).
Perfect storm. Now position may be way more convergent - Russia appears to work on double seater; if India wants one with Uttam (no one knows how the hell indians wants to integrate it with rest of Byelka - probably same way as X-guard) - it's their right.
 
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mack8

Junior Member
It would be unwise to underestimate the Su-57 with it's array of weapons AND it's avionics, which will be a notch over everything India has atm, or even upgraded Su-30MKIs with R-37s. They will both outrange the J-10C/PL-15. It would be even more troublesome for PAF if Su-57 is exported with it's standard weapons even in export form, the Izd.180/R-77M/R-87, the Izd.810/R-97 and the R-74M2, and these weapons finding their way to Su-30MKI too. The J-35 will be a must then at a minimum, and even it will be hard pressed by the R-97 which from what details we can gather would still outrange the PL-16, plus the fact that simply the Su-57 has more power and speed, not to mention it's supermaneuverability.

It's all fun to poke at the indians for their recent misfortunates, but sober minds should be wise to not underestimate them nor draw exagerrated conclusions from Sindoor. In any wide scale, persistent conflict we would not be wrong to expect that the air loss ratio would be a lot less one sided than Sindoor even with the IAF as it is today. They do have capable platforms and numerical superiority, and as known, numbers are a quality in itself.
 
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