Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

gelgoog said:

There is nothing 4.5 Gen in the Tejas. You could argue Tejas MK 1A will be 4.5 Gen but it has not flown yet.

Russia has been trying to sell upgrades with the AL-41 and Irbis-E to India for many years. Make the Su-30 have the insides of a Su-35. It is the Indians who rejected them.
You need a radar like Irbis-E to have the sensor range to operate the R-37M properly, and to operate that radar you need better electric generation. Like the one the AL-41 engine provides.

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Wait, I thought the Tejas at least had an AESA radar! Wow, it's even more junk than I realized! What business do people have comparing this thing to the JF-17 then? Even the older blocks were capable of carrying SD-10 missiles so even 4.5 gen fighters have to be careful going up against them.

As for the Su-30, India has decided to upgrade to carry indigenous gear! Grab your popcorn as we anticipate how much of a disaster this is going be. To be fair, the Super Sukhoi program was announced last year, before they knew how helpless the IAF was so there's still time to change their minds.

4Tran said:

Maybe India should think about getting on China's good side, and see if they can get a good deal from some J-35s.

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In honor of the of Sino-Indian relations, let's dig into the possibility of CATIC exporting the J-35/A to the IAF in particular, as well as one of the principal challenges plaguing the IAF, the Indian MoD and the country in general.

The IAF has been a "chronic victim" to one of the fundamental problems afflicting India: a societal wide inability to recognize — if not outright delusions* about — the realities and limits of Indian power, influence and relevance. In the case of the IAF, this translates to out of touch procurement practices at odds with the basic axiom that beggars can't be choosers.

What India has sought for years is for a foreign partner to avail to them the most sensitive and critical of aviation technologies, including 100% of processes essential to cranking out modern turbofans, including the hot parts:



Even though these proposed deals have gone no where for years, and everyone and their dog knows that no one — at least no one with state of the art turbofan technology — will offer India 100% ToT, our deluded Bharati bhais keep on telling themselves that such a deal is achievable:


This is in part why India will never get the J-35/A, even if China was to offer it. Aside from the fact that New Delhi is too proud and conceited to let the IAF fly Chinese fighters, India will demand the transfer of technologies that Beijing won't even share with Islamabad or Moscow.

To put it crudely, "the IAF is fucked" until our Indian friends get their heads out of the sand.

* Not here to bash India: their peerless propensity for nonsense is an objective reality

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, even if it's an unpalatable fact to some.

zyklon said:

In honor of the

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

of Sino-Indian relations, let's dig into the possibility of CATIC exporting the J-35/A to the IAF in particular, as well as one of the principal challenges plaguing the IAF, the Indian MoD and the country in general.

The IAF has been a "chronic victim" to one of the fundamental problems afflicting India: a societal wide inability to recognize — if not outright delusions* about — the realities and limits of Indian power, influence and relevance. In the case of the IAF, this translates to out of touch procurement practices at odds with the basic axiom that beggars can't be choosers.

What India has sought for years is for a foreign partner to avail to them the most sensitive and critical of aviation technologies, including 100% of processes essential to cranking out modern turbofans, including the hot parts:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583035378961125377

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1750949292804546990

Even though these proposed deals have gone no where for years, and everyone and their dog knows that no one — at least no one with state of the art turbofan technology — will offer India 100% ToT, our deluded Bharati bhais keep on telling themselves that such a deal is achievable:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1918880577366991045

This is in part why India will never get the J-35/A, even if China was to offer it. Aside from the fact that New Delhi is too proud and conceited to let the IAF fly Chinese fighters, India will demand the transfer of technologies that Beijing won't even share with Islamabad or Moscow.

To put it crudely, "the IAF is fucked" until our Indian friends get their heads out of the sand.

* Not here to bash India: their peerless propensity for nonsense is an objective reality

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

, even if it's an unpalatable fact to some.

Click to expand...

China should be breaking up India into pieces by fomenting rebellions and insurgencies, not supplying them with fighter jets. Its delusional to think China's biggest future enemy is to be given fighter jets.

Randomuser said:

The malacca strait strategy makes me confused. First of all it's in SEA not India. It has no business there. Blocking it off means it's invading SEA.

Second of all, not only China uses it but all of SEA and east Asia. You're not only try to hurt China but pretty everyone else east of India. How on earth is that gonna end well for India? You're basically driving them all in China's hands temporarily for the common interest of all. With them helping China, you have a very hard time keeping the blockade as well as a lot of enemies.

Maybe Jai Hinds love it because it makes them feel important but I'm scratching my head about it.

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Maybe they wan to use those lndian islands near myanmar/malaysia coast? Anyway,
Also west asian suppliers too, like lran, Gulf countries w good relations w CN would be affected if ever..
....

AlexYe said:

Dude you called it,

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1952011493932732806

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Will CN ban rare earth metals/magnets from being used in military exports by SK?

.....

zyklon said:

In honor of the

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

of Sino-Indian relations, let's dig into the possibility of CATIC exporting the J-35/A to the IAF in particular, as well as one of the principal challenges plaguing the IAF, the Indian MoD and the country in general.

The IAF has been a "chronic victim" to one of the fundamental problems afflicting India: a societal wide inability to recognize — if not outright delusions* about — the realities and limits of Indian power, influence and relevance. In the case of the IAF, this translates to out of touch procurement practices at odds with the basic axiom that beggars can't be choosers.

What India has sought for years is for a foreign partner to avail to them the most sensitive and critical of aviation technologies, including 100% of processes essential to cranking out modern turbofans, including the hot parts:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583035378961125377

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1750949292804546990

Even though these proposed deals have gone no where for years, and everyone and their dog knows that no one — at least no one with state of the art turbofan technology — will offer India 100% ToT, our deluded Bharati bhais keep on telling themselves that such a deal is achievable:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1918880577366991045

This is in part why India will never get the J-35/A, even if China was to offer it. Aside from the fact that New Delhi is too proud and conceited to let the IAF fly Chinese fighters, India will demand the transfer of technologies that Beijing won't even share with Islamabad or Moscow.

To put it crudely, "the IAF is fucked" until our Indian friends get their heads out of the sand.

* Not here to bash India: their peerless propensity for nonsense is an objective reality

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

, even if it's an unpalatable fact to some.

Click to expand...

Engines seems difficult to R&D, did they really talk abt 100% ToT and transfer mafg?

GulfLander said:

Engines seems difficult to R&D, did they really talk abt 100% ToT and transfer mafg?

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The Indian authorities have been hopelessly pursuing such laughably ambitious engine deals for years.

One of the articles I cited was from The Hindu, an Indian newspaper of record. quoted the Indian ambassador to France as follows:

“What we are looking for is not just a transfer of manufacturing technology, which essentially keeps you going with the same crutches that you have been on for the last six decades, but to work in the actual design phase, metallurgical aspects, etc.

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So, Safran [French multinational firm that works in the aerospace and defence sectors] is fully willing to do it with 100% transfer of technology in design, development, certification, production, so on and so forth,” Mr. Ashraf said.

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What this article failed to mention — and what Indian elites, mainstream media and social media like to ignore in general — is that leading(-ish) turbofan manufacturers like Rolls Royce and Safran will happily offer "100% ToT" despite knowing full well that their governments won't grant all of the requisite export licenses.

At this juncture in time, there's a reasonable chance that a country like France will permit a company like Safran to ToT (close to) 100% of the technology for an aging design like the M88 to India.

That could be enough to get a deal signed, but won't make the AMCA a particularly competitive fighter or compelling offering in its class, nevermind against 6th gen designs.

The thing is, Russia has cooperated with France in engine design in the past. Powerjet was a cooperation between Saturn and Safran to make the SaM146 engine.

When the Russians wanted to increase production of these engines they found out that would increase the cost of each individual engine. Which goes against economic logic. Turns out the bottleneck was the hot parts were outsourced by the French to Precision CastParts. A US defacto monopoly. They control the price.

The Indians might find out that while the French designed the M88 engine the actual manufacturing is outsourced all over the West. And a lot of the subcontractors won't share their IP.

Oh and the French proposed to have the Russians make those hot parts of the engine themselves and cooperate on that for other engines as well. The Russians decided just to skip the ordeal and make the PD-8 by themselves. UMPO in Russia can make those kinds of metal castings.

gelgoog said:

Turns out the bottleneck was the hot parts were outsourced by the French to Precision CastParts. A US defacto monopoly. They control the price.

The Indians might find out that while the French designed the M88 engine the actual manufacturing is outsourced all over the West. And a lot of the subcontractors won't share their IP.

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This is exactly why I characterized Rolls Royce and Safran as "leading(-ish) turbofan manufacturers." They might be able to produce turbofans broadly competitive with GE and P&W in TWR and MTBO, but they can only accomplish so much without access to fully sovereign supply chains.

No countries are going to fully transfer tech to you unless the tech is outdated.. India needs to learn to build step by step from the start. First, they need to bring back the Western educated Indians home to help out.

The best thing about being self sufficient like China is they dont need to depend on any countries for the most part. If they need something they will build it on the spot. For countries that are not self-sufficient, they need to buy weapons from another countries which is a hassle. There is a possible that no one will sell to you. And another problem is the long waiting time. Iran has been waiting for ages for their SU35 from Russia but it still hasn't delivered yet and probably will never be..

You need your own metallurgy, and your own test facilities. Besides the engine design resources.

Russia has all of that.

The Indians think just giving some peanuts to GTRE to make Kaveri is enough.

gelgoog said:

The Indians think just giving some peanuts to GTRE to make Kaveri is enough.

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yep and it Backfired HARD. Their engine initiative was 1980's yet no Tejas or anything really ever fly with the indigenous engine. Which kinda bizzare like they understand the strategic value of sovereign jet engine manufacturing capability yet investing so little. It's not like they are in short of capable scientists but, the political will doesnt seem to be there.

Also weird tendency to rely on "Magical TOT" will quickly solve the problem.

Kejora said:

If AL-41 is required to use PESA radar like Irbis-E how come early PLA aircraft like early J-20, early J-10C, and J-15T could operate AESA with AL-31?

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The key is in the generator design. Not necessarily the engine. I recently figured that aircraft jet engine actually already provide high RPM, which suitable for high power generation. Typical Engine mounted generator will "tap" its power from the engine's High pressure compressor/turbine shaft, this typically provide some 10000-20000 RPM or more. If one ask why ? The reason is that there are not much RPM differences in flight condition, this simplify the CSD (Constant Speed Drive) Or overall transmission and generator design. If low pressure compressor and fan shaft are used, then the generator would be more complex as it has to ensure uniformity of power being generated across the RPM of the stage which can be as low as 900 RPM to up to near the high pressure compressor/turbine value.

The next roadblock is generator design, particularly the rotor and stator. 2 Important metric exist namely the current carrying capability of the stator per sqmm and the amount of magnetic flux in the rotor in Tesla. The former can be improved by better cooling while the latter is to use say Permanent Magnet or some other exotic system (e.g Superconducting rotor).

You can use electric motor proportionality equation here to calculate the power



The RPM value should be converted to "RPS"/Rotation Per Second. For example suppose we have Su-27 generator with 30 KW of power, the . Now we want to see the improvements of power when :

-Advanced cooling is used, say Direct immersion and Spray liquid cooling, which allow increase in current density to 28 A/sqmm


-Use of say permanent magnet based on some fancy rare earth material, increasing the rotor magnetic flux to say 2 Tesla. How much power the generator can produce ? assuming same footprint. Converting the RPM to RPS 8360 RPM, means 133 RPS The power would be :

P(hp) = 0.504^2*0.235*28*2*138.88
P(hp) = 464.25 Hp or about 338 KW. 10 times the value of the original GP-21. Well granted i didnt make power correction (as typically generator is rated in KVa where it needs to be multiplied with correction factor of 0.85)

Use of motor equation might make some people raising their eyebrows but it is appropriate given the same principles of electric motor and generator. Remember EV's motor can be generator too for so called Regenerative braking. One can then see how advanced Chinese EV motor nowadays. That easily translates to better and more powerful aircraft generators.