Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
Armenia had the Buk, Tor, and S-300 systems during the N-K war of 2020. Yet those have largely failed to stop the Azeri drones. Akash is a downgrade over those systems. It's a procurement choice that makes little sense.

So why does Armenia suddenly prefer to buy weapons from India? I suspect that it's because Armenia under Pashinyan today hates Russia, so it won't buy anything from Russia. It is pro-West, but cannot afford expensive NATO weaponry. It won't buy from China, because it is pro-West. It won't buy from South Korea and Israel because they are selling weapons to Azerbaijan and Turkey, the arch enemies. So the only option left for Armenia that is both relatively affordable, and politically acceptable is Indian weaponry. Since tensions between Armenia and Azerbaijan is still quite hot, I think Armenia's Indian weaponry could see action sooner than expected. Then we shall see if these weapons can live up to the Jai Hind hype. I do not have high expectations.

The technology level of the Akash missile projectile is basically 70’s level since it is the predecessor the Buk, Kub. I’m sure the electronics have been upgraded, but its interesting to see that Armenia doesn’t have many better options
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
The technology level of the Akash missile projectile is basically 70’s level since it is the predecessor the Buk, Kub. I’m sure the electronics have been upgraded, but its interesting to see that Armenia doesn’t have many better options
Rather than lack of better options, perhaps they decide to buy it because it gives India a vested interest in any future conflict they may have?

US is notoriously overstretched. China would not sell weapons to a country unfriendly with Russia.

Armenia can get no strings attached weapons from France, Europe or South Africa. Or India. Out of those, India is the most likely one to try and flex their muscles and give that little extra, because their national ego demands their first ever major military sale to be "succesful", whether it's Indian advisors on the ground helping to man the weapons, or even backroom guarantees to have Indian political support in potential conflicts.
 

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
Rather than lack of better options, perhaps they decide to buy it because it gives India a vested interest in any future conflict they may have?

US is notoriously overstretched. China would not sell weapons to a country unfriendly with Russia.

Armenia can get no strings attached weapons from France, Europe or South Africa. Or India. Out of those, India is the most likely one to try and flex their muscles and give that little extra, because their national ego demands their first ever major military sale to be "succesful", whether it's Indian advisors on the ground helping to man the weapons, or even backroom guarantees to have Indian political support in potential conflicts.

What can India do for Armenia? Nothing.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
So by 2033, China will probably have about ~1500 J-20s or more, while India is just starting serial production of a J10C equivalent (maybe not even)

Damn. I knew the Tejas Mk2 was behind but didn't know it was that far behind.

This would imply J-20 production at 120 per year?
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
This would imply J-20 production at 120 per year?

And it has recently been shown to be around that indeed. Especially now intended engine WS-15 is used on J-20, production rates have been ramped up. 60+ per year of previous years of J-20 production wasn't bad in any measure... I mean India has not been able to average even 6 Tejas produced per year since LRIP**. New production J-20A and J-20S using WS-15 instead of WS-10C just mean new assembly lines were tooled for intended engine frames.

**Around 35 produced since around 2015 ~ average rate <5 aircraft produced per year. Of course they'll start producing at faster rate but so many members have expressed concern over J-20's past production rate of close to 80 units per year. By global standards that was absolutely impressive. 120 per year just shows intended engines finally reaching operational readiness after 10+ years of development and testing.
 

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
So by 2033, China will probably have about ~1500 J-20s or more, while India is just starting serial production of a J10C equivalent (maybe not even)

Damn. I knew the Tejas Mk2 was behind but didn't know it was that far behind.
I frankly doubt that full-rate J-20 production will last that long.
Chinese fighter fleet is already top-heavy. But putting this aside.

India can't match it anyway, regardless of how it played its cards in the past. Like what are their choices to match China - buying out whole F-35 production? Nor it really needs to, as apart from geopolitical threat-mongering - China isn't threatening Indian survival or anything; the Himalayas kinda stay in a way for the last 1500 years; it's possible to act so irresponsibly precisely because of that. The 1962 war shows the extent of what can realistically happen.

Indian 42 fighter squadron goal (1000 aircraft) is a two-theater goal against Pakistan(offensive) and China (de facto sustaining a stalemate). China's fight is elsewhere, India knows that. So, in a strict sense, they need only to be able to conduct a defensive air battle with a useful degree of penetrating strike.

This is achievable with a well&timely upgraded (modern AESA, networking, force multipliers) 4th-generation fleet. In a way, it's almost a statement that this fleet isn't offensive against China, regardless of rhetoric (almost certainly not meant this way, but the buildup choice itself is telling).
 

Pataliputra

Junior Member
Registered Member
Well, what else can he say?
Unless there will be shooting, he gets away with it. But so did Indian MKIs before 2019, with weapon systems 1-2 generations behind the opponent. Until there was an incident.

The fact is, J-20 is a different level of capability, supported by much better force multipliers. And the overall situation is such that it forces political consequences, undermining India's original geographical superiority.

That's indeed a story of unprecedented success. The result is that India is left with 3 dozen Rafales for its first-class capability. Primary MKI fleet still hasn't started their upgrade(fighter isn't fine wine, 20+ years don't make it even better).
All of it together leaves the stating party at a qualitative parity with a much weaker Pakistan - and, adding insult to injury, effectively parries much larger former and concurrent Indian investment.

Against China, IAF for the foreseeable future can only maintain a [weak] defensive state, because the nature of the northern border limits the effect of GBAD(mountains) - even if PLAAF deploys only a limited amount of forces (qualitative suppression).
Given that these two opponents are likely to happen simultaneously, after many decades of qualitative superiority over both (India maintained at least a qualitive overmatch over both China and Pakistan since 1960s) - it's a magnificent result from a loved branch of Indian military.
No, not really.

To be relevant, FGFA should be nearing FOC service now.

Instead, it wasn't even revealed to the public - instead, its development is accompanied now by a significant spread of HAL resources onto other, parallel projects(Tejas mk.2; TEDBA). Now HAL added HLFT-42, which is a yet another fighter (spare me trainer bs, it doesn't even pretend to be simplified).
Certainly, two batches of Rafale asquisition also directly eat away from it and all the listed above.

French Air Force seats two sets of borders away from the nearest unfriendly country (Russia), against which can always expect to deploy with friends, the way it want; it isn't threatened in any way.
When a prestigious and reputable institution like the Indian Air Force dismisses the Chinese J20 as a fifth-generation fighter jet, choosing the heavily modified and four times more expensive Rafales after rejecting the Su57, there must be a substantial reason behind this decision.
 

Pataliputra

Junior Member
Registered Member
I frankly doubt that full-rate J-20 production will last that long.
Chinese fighter fleet is already top-heavy. But putting this aside.

India can't match it anyway, regardless of how it played its cards in the past. Like what are their choices to match China - buying out whole F-35 production? Nor it really needs to, as apart from geopolitical threat-mongering - China isn't threatening Indian survival or anything; the Himalayas kinda stay in a way for the last 1500 years; it's possible to act so irresponsibly precisely because of that. The 1962 war shows the extent of what can realistically happen.

Indian 42 fighter squadron goal (1000 aircraft) is a two-theater goal against Pakistan(offensive) and China (de facto sustaining a stalemate). China's fight is elsewhere, India knows that. So, in a strict sense, they need only to be able to conduct a defensive air battle with a useful degree of penetrating strike.

This is achievable with a well&timely upgraded (modern AESA, networking, force multipliers) 4th-generation fleet. In a way, it's almost a statement that this fleet isn't offensive against China, regardless of rhetoric (almost certainly not meant this way, but the buildup choice itself is telling).
What is the RCS of J20 ?
 

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
When a prestigious and reputable institution like the Indian Air Force dismisses the Chinese J20 as a fifth-generation fighter jet, choosing the heavily modified and four times more expensive Rafales after rejecting the Su57, there must be a substantial reason behind this decision.
No wonder the IAF loses fighter jets every single year despite not being at war with anybody and despite not having any global commitments like the USAF and USN do.
 
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Sardaukar20

Captain
Registered Member
When a prestigious and reputable institution like the Indian Air Force dismisses the Chinese J20 as a fifth-generation fighter jet, choosing the heavily modified and four times more expensive Rafales after rejecting the Su57, there must be a substantial reason behind this decision.
Excellent. I love it when the "prestigious and reputable" Indian Air Force dismissed the J-20 and all of the PLAAF. They even dismissed the Su-57, and the F-35, and chose the Rafale instead. Not just that, they also preferred to pay the price of around four F-35 for one Rafale.

All of India's enemies are rejoicing when they see your "prestigious and reputable' Indian Air Force is making decisions like this. I know that the gap between China and India is gonna be widening even faster.

What is the RCS of J20 ?
It's a state secret. But I guessed you and the BS Dhanoa have already magically guessed it, which is: it's all China's bluff.

According to your great Indian Air Force guru: BS Dhanoa, J-20 is not a fifth gen aircraft. It's just another generic cheap Chinese 4th gen aircraft flown by lousy Chinese pilots. Indian pilots can see the J-20 with their own eyeballs, even beyond the radar ranges of their own fighters. So there is nothing for India to fear from China then. The Rafales and Su-30MKIs with Indian pilots vastly outclasses the PLAAF. It should have been time for India to realize Akhand Bharat already. So what is India waiting for? Are there doubts?
 
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