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Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
Stealthflanker said:
What's with Indian and aviation problem ?.
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They put a lot of marbles on false hopes. The Kaveri engine for example was an important stepping stone and it's still not there. LCA was hit in the flanks big time without Kaveri and Tejas lumped to US engines. The Tejas program became insane and started asking way to much for that small airframe. Achieving Mig-21 replacement should have been the target, nothing else.

Looking at their fighter fleet, they have 7 types of fighters for a force of about 600 and nearly a third of them bought before 1980. It's still a big number of planes and a lot are aged and waiting for replacement.

But in general nothing is easy in aviation and you cannot jump on any cheap deals giving you small number of planes to build up a large force. They have so many logistical problems with an aging fleet that their new planes are getting stuck in the mess.
 
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S

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
They have a major project management problem.
Goalposts constantly change.
Tejas was tested with GE F404, then there was an internal push to wait for Kaveri, then when it was clear Kaveri was not coming any time soon (after wasting 10 years), F404 was allowed to go ahead. Now they found that the performance was not really great, so they want to switch to F414 (which is bigger), but they also wasted time consulting with the French.
Similar story with the Radar.
Initally it was supposed to use the Gripen radar, then there was push to use the domestic radar, then you want AESA... blah blah blah, you know how the story goes.
On top of this, you have all the corruption from the foreign suppliers trying to get a piece of the pie, Americans, French, Israeli, Swedish, etc.
 
A

Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
supersnoop said:
They have a major project management problem.
Goalposts constantly change.
Tejas was tested with GE F404, then there was an internal push to wait for Kaveri, then when it was clear Kaveri was not coming any time soon (after wasting 10 years), F404 was allowed to go ahead. Now they found that the performance was not really great, so they want to switch to F414 (which is bigger), but they also wasted time consulting with the French.
Similar story with the Radar.
Initally it was supposed to use the Gripen radar, then there was push to use the domestic radar, then you want AESA... blah blah blah, you know how the story goes.
On top of this, you have all the corruption from the foreign suppliers trying to get a piece of the pie, Americans, French, Israeli, Swedish, etc.
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The funny part is that they push new programs on top of old ones with conflicting requirements. Just take the new HLFT-42 (Marut mk2) that will have a take-off weight bigger than the Tekas Mk1 and able to do more or less the same things. That LIFT-advanced trainer will be near the MTOW of the Tejas mk2... and powered with a 404 or the never ending Kaveri like the Mk1...

They are not climbing a ladder steadily, they are going in blindfolded while running.
 
S

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
Atomicfrog said:
The funny part is that they push new programs on top of old ones with conflicting requirements. Just take the new HLFT-42 (Marut mk2) that will have a take-off weight bigger than the Tekas Mk1 and able to do more or less the same things. That LIFT-advanced trainer will be near the MTOW of the Tejas mk2... and powered with a 404 or the never ending Kaveri like the Mk1...

They are not climbing a ladder steadily, they are going in blindfolded while running.
Click to expand...
I read somewhere that the HLFT-42 was initiated by HAL in-house "privately" while Tejas design is managed by ADA.
Of course HAL is still in charge of manufacturing Tejas, so basically just trying to compete with themselves (and bleeding resources as a result). Goes to show what a mess the project management situation is like.

I guess the closest analogous situation was the encroachment of KnAAPO onto the Sukhoi bureau's design business itself before everything was streamlined into UAC by the Russian government.

This is a lot different from say J-20 vs. J-31 or YF-22 vs. YF-23 which were sanctioned by the government in the prototype stage. Tejas is not supposed to have competition at this point.
 
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