Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Lethe

Lethe

Captain
Latest rumours suggest India is going to opt for more Scorpenes and relax the AIP requirement for P-75I to induce more vendors to bid.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

According to South Block officials, the Indian Navy is expected to approach the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) soon for acceptance of necessity (AoN) for three more diesel attack submarines under the “Make in India” project with the French Naval Group expected to test the DRDO developed AIP system before fitting in the new submarines.

The Kalvari class submarines or Project 75 was approved by the A B Vajpayee government in 1997 and the project was expedited in 1999 after the Kargil War with Pakistan. The first Kalvari class submarine was commissioned 18 years later on December 14, 2017
Click to expand...

There is clearly some meaning of the word "expedited" that I was not previously aware of.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Indian Navy is unlikely to drop plans to procure six next-gen Diesel-electric submarines under Project-75I even though it considering procuring 2-3 additional Kalvari class submarines owing due to delays in the Project-75I and due to the proposed retirement of Shishumar-class submarines by the turn of this decade.

idrw.org has been told that, while the last date of the bid has been postponed due to a lack of contenders in the tender to August this year, the Navy is considering dropping the mandated clause of having an operational Fuel Cell based Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) System so that more shipbuilders can send their bid.

France and Russia had opted out of Project-75I since both didn’t have operational and tested Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) Systems. The Navy is keen that at least it has an offer for four or more submarines under Project-75I. Presently only the Korean bid meets all the criteria, while the German bid also met the criteria, Germany ThyssenKrupp Marine System is not keen to participate due to stringent ToT and Work/ Quality Liability clause.
Click to expand...

If South Korea's offer is not compelling, and Germany's lack of participation does not owe to AIP clause but rather to other concerns, then the effect of dropping AIP requirement is only to add France and Russia into the mix. What about Japan? Quad buddies should stick together, right?

Prima facie there would seem to be a case for India to go Russian to balance French influence, but beyond the immediate sensitivites about signing a major defence acquisition program with Russia in the near future, I don't think it is much of a secret that Russia already has some level of involvement in India's nuclear submarine programs.
 
C

Chandragupt

Junior Member
Registered Member
The Tejas MK2 will have retractable refuelling probe further reducing the already small RCS of 0.5 meter square for Tejas MK1A
Tejas MK2 though it's bigger than Tejas MK1A and has cannards but the RCS of this aircraft is expected to be even smaller than the present Tejas MK1A
9oyc69ggpyq71.jpg
img-20190317-230044_orig.jpg
There is no need to acquire 114 fighter jets under MMRCA 2.0 , Except for the engine (which is imported from USA) everything else in Tejas is either superior to or at par with any 4th gen fighter jet being offered under MMRCA
If MMRCA is meant to establish strategic relations with a country or to acquire a Fifth Generation fighter like F35 then one can understand its importance but there is no need to import a 4th gen fighter jet from abroad to fulfill the requirements of IAF , Tejas MK1A , MK2 and TEDBF are more than enough to fulfill the requirements of Indian airforce
MMRCA 1.0 was meant to replace the Mig21 fleet it got cancelled and Tejas MK1A is under production to replace the very same Mig21 fleet , similar should happen with MMRCA 2.0 IAF should scrap MMRCA 2.0 and increase the orders for both MK1A and MK2 fighter jet
 
J

Jason_

Junior Member
Registered Member
Chandragupt said:
Fair enough
so all of us have agreed on the point that Tejas MK1 has a Payload carrying capacity of 5.3 tons and MK1A has weight reduction of 1000kg so theoretically it would be able to carry 6.3 tons of payload even if it doesn't carry 6.3 tons of payload it will have increased manneuverability , Increased range and service ceiling because the overall weight has decreased by 1000kg
And we also have agreed that the RCS of Tejas is 0.5 meter square as per the publicly available figures which is best in the entire 4th generation fighters
Tejas MK1A comes equipped with Indian made UTTAM MK2 AESA Radar which will have 992 TR Modules better than the RBE-2 Radar of rafales which have 800 TR Modules
And having Indian Radar and Mission computer means it can carry all kind of weapons and bombs from all around the world except for the Chinese ones
Click to expand...
No. I think instead we would agree

Tejas has descent payload capacity on paper but its short range necessitate its most valuable hardpoints to be reserved for fuel tanks. Its on paper maximum payload will never be realized in combat, which is true for all fighters but especially punishing for small fighters.

Tejas has no RCS reducing features that is not also commonly seen on all modern 4th gen fighters, and several major features known to be RCS hotspots. No official representative of the Indian defense establishment has ever given a direct number to Tejas' RCS, despite claims to the contrary. While it is possible a clean configuration Tejas achieve 0.5m^2 on its best aspect, it is vanishingly unlikely for it to achieve so on the frontal aspect as a whole, and even less so on the beam or rear aspects. When external payloads are taken into account it would have no advantage whatsoever against other fighters.

The UTTAM AESA radar uses quad pack T/R module, a clear sign of technological backwardness equivalent to that of the US in the late 1990s and China in the early 2000s. Every other contemporary non-Russian AESA radar uses single channel T/R module.

Having Indian radar and mission computer means Tejas cannot integrate any advanced weapon from anywhere in the world without years of negotiations, consent from foreign manufacturers with little incentive to share source codes, millions of dollars of contract costs plus bribes, and then years of integration testing. Given the awkward position of Tejas in the IAF's ecosystem and its tiny production run, integration likely isn't worth the cost. Nor do international options translate into combat effectiveness. The PL-15E, PL-10E, CM-400AKG, and LS/GB series of glided bombs integrated and ready to fire today on Pakistani JF-17C and J-10CE match if not exceed the capability of any potential weapons India can get this decade.
 
B

badoc

Junior Member
Registered Member
Chandragupt said:
Fair enough
so all of us have agreed on the point that Tejas MK1 has a Payload carrying capacity of 5.3 tons and MK1A has weight reduction of 1000kg so theoretically it would be able to carry 6.3 tons of payload even if it doesn't carry 6.3 tons of payload it will have increased manneuverability , Increased range and service ceiling because the overall weight has decreased by 1000kg
And we also have agreed that the RCS of Tejas is 0.5 meter square as per the publicly available figures which is best in the entire 4th generation fighters
Tejas MK1A comes equipped with Indian made UTTAM MK2 AESA Radar which will have 992 TR Modules better than the RBE-2 Radar of rafales which have 800 TR Modules
And having Indian Radar and Mission computer means it can carry all kind of weapons and bombs from all around the world except for the Chinese ones
Click to expand...
NOPE, not necessarily true theoretically or otherwise until confirmed by reputable source.

They could have designed the reduction in weight with the target of 5.3 tons payload.
Or maybe they even had to sacrifice payload in order to save weight and rectify flight deficency.
Lets not jump the gun and come up with Indian Vedic superpower logic.
.
 
PiSigma

PiSigma

"the engineer"
badoc said:
NOPE, not necessarily true theoretically or otherwise until confirmed by reputable source.

They could have designed the reduction in weight with the target of 5.3 tons payload.
Or maybe they even had to sacrifice payload in order to save weight and rectify flight deficency.
Lets not jump the gun and come up with Indian Vedic superpower logic.
.
Click to expand...
Come on people, we all know Tejas is really a 6th generation fighter that is actually unmanned. That's why there is no need to consider weight for pilot, seat or other human support equipment. This alone shaves off 1000kg! It is also powered by ZPMs, so there is no fuel requirements, more weight freed up to carry payloads. It is actually made from vedic material no one else knows about invented in India 1000000BC so it's radar cross section is -50m2, yes negative. It will cloak anything within 50 meter squares. Look up the Protoss mothership, it is a copy of the Tejas. It's actually payload is also 900 tons, they tell you 9 to throw you off.

This is all a big mirage you make non Indians under estimate the powerful Tejas.
 
C

Chandragupt

Junior Member
Registered Member
badoc said:
NOPE, not necessarily true theoretically or otherwise until confirmed by reputable source.

They could have designed the reduction in weight with the target of 5.3 tons payload.
Or maybe they even had to sacrifice payload in order to save weight and rectify flight deficency.
Lets not jump the gun and come up with Indian Vedic superpower logic.
.
Click to expand...
So Hindustan Aeronautics Limited the company which manufactures this fighter jet is not a reputable source of information
 
C

Chandragupt

Junior Member
Registered Member
Jason_ said:
No. I think instead we would agree

Tejas has descent payload capacity on paper but its short range necessitate its most valuable hardpoints to be reserved for fuel tanks. Its on paper maximum payload will never be realized in combat, which is true for all fighters but especially punishing for small fighters.

Tejas has no RCS reducing features that is not also commonly seen on all modern 4th gen fighters, and several major features known to be RCS hotspots. No official representative of the Indian defense establishment has ever given a direct number to Tejas' RCS, despite claims to the contrary. While it is possible a clean configuration Tejas achieve 0.5m^2 on its best aspect, it is vanishingly unlikely for it to achieve so on the frontal aspect as a whole, and even less so on the beam or rear aspects. When external payloads are taken into account it would have no advantage whatsoever against other fighters.

The UTTAM AESA radar uses quad pack T/R module, a clear sign of technological backwardness equivalent to that of the US in the late 1990s and China in the early 2000s. Every other contemporary non-Russian AESA radar uses single channel T/R module.

Having Indian radar and mission computer means Tejas cannot integrate any advanced weapon from anywhere in the world without years of negotiations, consent from foreign manufacturers with little incentive to share source codes, millions of dollars of contract costs plus bribes, and then years of integration testing. Given the awkward position of Tejas in the IAF's ecosystem and its tiny production run, integration likely isn't worth the cost. Nor do international options translate into combat effectiveness. The PL-15E, PL-10E, CM-400AKG, and LS/GB series of glided bombs integrated and ready to fire today on Pakistani JF-17C and J-10CE match if not exceed the capability of any potential weapons India can get this decade.
Click to expand...
Whatever is available on Paper is the only thing we know about Tejas or any other fighter jet in the world neither of us has flown Tejas to comment on it's performance based on our personal experience
Tejas has a ferry range of 2000+ kilometres range which is not just decent but best for a fighter as small and light as Tejas
Apart from 9 hardpoints to store extra fuel Tejas also has in flight refueling Probe
Tejas is the most RCS optimised 4th generation fighter jet in the world and that's the reason why it has smallest RCS among all 4th generation fighter jet
I don't know about this particular point you made about UTTAM AESA Radar I will read about this particular feature but the UTTAM MK2 AESA Radar installed on Tejas MK1A has 992 TR modules I am pretty sure no 4th generation fighter jet of this size in the world has a Radar as powerful as UTTAM MK2 AESA Radar installed on Tejas MK1A , The RBE-2 Radar installed on rafales have 800 TR modules
Now coming to weapon package apart from The Indian Missiles and bombs Tejas can also carry Russian , American , Israeli and European weapon that's something very unique about Indian platforms because India imports weapons from all these countries and except for USA and UK rest all the other countries in Western world never had hostile relations with India in history
 
C

Chandragupt

Junior Member
Registered Member
Armaments of Tejas MK1 (not MK1A)

Guns: 1x 23 mm twin-barrel GSh-23 cannon

Hardpoints: 8 (1 × beneath the port-side intake trunk for targeting pods, 6 × under-wing, and 1 × under-fuselage) with a capacity of 5300 kg, with provisions to carry combinations of:

Rockets: S-8 rocket pods (expected)

Missiles:

1.Air-to-air missiles:
2.R-73
3.I-Derby / ER
4.Python-5
5.ASRAAM (planned)
6.Astra Mark 1 (planned)
7.R-77 (planned)

Air-to-surface missile:
1.Kh-59ME, Kh-59L, Kh-59T
2.AASM-Hammer (SBU-38/54/64)
3.BrahMos-NG ALCM (planned)
4.Anti-radiation missile:
5.Rudram-1 (Planned)

Anti-ship missile:
1.Kh-35
2.Kh-59MK

Bombs:
Precision-guided munition:
1.Spice
2.Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM)
3.HSLD-100/250/450/500
4.DRDO Glide Bombs
5.DRDO SAAW
6.Tactical Advanced Range Augmentation (TARA)

Laser-guided bomb:
1.KAB-1500L
2.GBU-16 Paveway II
3.Sudarshan
4.Griffin LGB
5.Cluster munition:
6.RBK-500
7.Unguided bomb:
8.ODAB-500PM
9.ZAB-250/350
10.BetAB-500Shp
11.FAB-500T
12.FAB-250
13.OFAB-250-270
14.OFAB-100-120
download.jpeg
NOTE : Tejas MK1 has Israeli ELTA 2052 Radar so it cannot carry meteor but Tejas MK1A will come with Indian UTTAM AESA Radar and hence will be able to carry Meteor
 
C

Chandragupt

Junior Member
Registered Member
PiSigma said:
Come on people, we all know Tejas is really a 6th generation fighter that is actually unmanned. That's why there is no need to consider weight for pilot, seat or other human support equipment. This alone shaves off 1000kg! It is also powered by ZPMs, so there is no fuel requirements, more weight freed up to carry payloads. It is actually made from vedic material no one else knows about invented in India 1000000BC so it's radar cross section is -50m2, yes negative. It will cloak anything within 50 meter squares. Look up the Protoss mothership, it is a copy of the Tejas. It's actually payload is also 900 tons, they tell you 9 to throw you off.

This is all a big mirage you make non Indians under estimate the powerful Tejas.
Click to expand...
Not 6th generation but the best 4th generation fighter jet in the world listen to the interview of this pilot who flew Tejas
It’s pleasure to fly this aircraft , its on top , i am confident that it’s one of the best , my bird is probably one of the best in the world , it’s a dream machine to fly
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top