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Biscuits

Colonel
Registered Member
Abominable said:
American drones are very expensive. Turkey or Iran would be an alternative for cheaper drones but thanks to India's foreign policy they are not options. CH-4s are obviously out of the question....

I actually think India is capable of developing an equivalent MALE drone. It would be a good stepping stone for their military industry but they are more interested in vanity projects that never get anywhere.
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This isn't a case of stuff being expensive. It is just daylight robbery.

If its sectors where US has a mature industry, their prices are actually not that expensive at all. A F-35 per plane factory price for example will be somewhat cheaper than a J-20 per plane factory price.

Drones like MQ-9B (not even the MQ-20) are cheap dime a dozen garbage. Even top level drones like wz7 or latest block global hawk will not cost 100 million.

The deal is a spit in the face of India, nothing more and nothing less.

If India will preserve its dignity, it will not take such an insult lying down.

Through in the past, the Russians also spat in the face of Indians by transferring a decrepit carrier and then smugly cutting the elevators to be too small to fit anything except Russia's own crappy naval fighters. And India just accepted it.

So anything might be possible.
 
A

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
Biscuits said:
This isn't a case of stuff being expensive. It is just daylight robbery.

If its sectors where US has a mature industry, their prices are actually not that expensive at all. A F-35 per plane factory price for example will be somewhat cheaper than a J-20 per plane factory price.

Drones like MQ-9B (not even the MQ-20) are cheap dime a dozen garbage. Even top level drones like wz7 or latest block global hawk will not cost 100 million.

The deal is a spit in the face of India, nothing more and nothing less.

If India will preserve its dignity, it will not take such an insult lying down.

Through in the past, the Russians also spat in the face of Indians by transferring a decrepit carrier and then smugly cutting the elevators to be too small to fit anything except Russia's own crappy naval fighters. And India just accepted it.

So anything might be possible.
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American drones cost more because they were the first to develop them. They have decades worth of experience compared to anyone else. America was bombing people with drones when most countries were dreaming about making drones.

I agree that a MQ-9B shouldn't cost more than a F-35 (lol), but the argument from the American MIC would be they are cheaper to operate and deploy, with better range and loiter time.

Most of America's clients are first world countries who don't mind paying for that premium. It's like comparing a Mercedes to a Toyota. A Toyota doesn't get the job done any worse than the Mercedes (arguably better) but people pay more for the brand/history.

What other choice does India have apart from American drones? Normally Indians go for French or British platforms as they are less likely to sanction for human rights issues, but they both aren't interested in developing what is essentially a COIN platform.

You'd think Israel would be an option, but their drones aren't much cheaper than American (and probably dependent on American tech). Israel allegedly sold datalink codes to Russia in return for information on Tor deployed in Iran. I don't think they would have a problem selling codes to China for any Israeli developed drones India buys. Maybe there are issues with the Muslim minority in India and dealing with Israel.

Thanks to India's bad foreign policy, it seems to me Americans can ask whatever price they want from the Indians and they are forced to pay it.
 
S

sheen

New Member
Registered Member
Abominable said:
American drones cost more because they were the first to develop them. They have decades worth of experience compared to anyone else. America was bombing people with drones when most countries were dreaming about making drones.

I agree that a MQ-9B shouldn't cost more than a F-35 (lol), but the argument from the American MIC would be they are cheaper to operate and deploy, with better range and loiter time.

Most of America's clients are first world countries who don't mind paying for that premium. It's like comparing a Mercedes to a Toyota. A Toyota doesn't get the job done any worse than the Mercedes (arguably better) but people pay more for the brand/history.

What other choice does India have apart from American drones? Normally Indians go for French or British platforms as they are less likely to sanction for human rights issues, but they both aren't interested in developing what is essentially a COIN platform.

You'd think Israel would be an option, but their drones aren't much cheaper than American (and probably dependent on American tech). Israel allegedly sold datalink codes to Russia in return for information on Tor deployed in Iran. I don't think they would have a problem selling codes to China for any Israeli developed drones India buys. Maybe there are issues with the Muslim minority in India and dealing with Israel.

Thanks to India's bad foreign policy, it seems to me Americans can ask whatever price they want from the Indians and they are forced to pay it.
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If the Iranians under all the sanctions could build a competent suicide RC plane, then what excuse does India have?
 
Lethe

Lethe

Captain
Abominable said:
You'd think Israel would be an option, but their drones aren't much cheaper than American (and probably dependent on American tech). Israel allegedly sold datalink codes to Russia in return for information on Tor deployed in Iran. I don't think they would have a problem selling codes to China for any Israeli developed drones India buys. Maybe there are issues with the Muslim minority in India and dealing with Israel.
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India has
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contact with Israel's military-industrial complex and has been purchasing Israeli drones for decades now, alongside machine guns, radars, missiles... India is Israel's largest defence export market!
 
P

pmc

Major
Registered Member
Biscuits said:
hrough in the past, the Russians also spat in the face of Indians by transferring a decrepit carrier and then smugly cutting the elevators to be too small to fit anything except Russia's own crappy naval fighters. And India just accepted it.
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There is not much design changes can be done.
The C-17 that India bought were used with 216 tonnes of MTOW due to lack of quality runways. I think the size of carrier is too small for the pointed weight of MIG-29K that is breaking things.
The same fighter were taken to Syria on much longer voyage and they only had one mishap on deck related to it.
why flight simulator in 2021 unless the older simulators have problems or pilots trained on it not getting it. regardless there will be engineering problem unless they buy Rafale or F-18 that is perfected on deck for decades.

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Bellum_Romanum

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
Indian foreign Minister really earns his paycheck on this interview. Whatever one thinks of Indian foreign policy, there's no doubt that the current posture of India under the current geopolitical environment has been a boon to the country. They can make a negative as an actual positive posture; unafraid to challenge western narrative when it comes to the Ukraine vs Russia conflict, and deftly inserting their call for India to become the next member of the UN Security Council.

 
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sndef888

Captain
Registered Member
Bellum_Romanum said:
Indian foreign Minister really earns his paycheck on this interview. Whatever one thinks of Indian foreign policy, there's no doubt that the current posture of India under the current geopolitical environment has been a boon to the country. They can make a negative as an actual positive posture; unafraid to challenge western narrative when it comes to the Ukraine vs Russia conflict, and deftly inserting their call for India to become the next member of the UN Security Council.

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On the contrary, I think he is good at speaking eloquently and countering western journalists but doesn't really achieve much for Indian foreign policy.

Look at what happened in the past year, the west was desperately trying to turn India into an ally. A good foreign minister could have leveraged that into getting concessions, market access, technology transfer from the west while still keeping Russia around as a sidekick.

What has India gotten? Nothing but scorn for their "support for Russia". Instead the US has turned to couping Pakistan and strengthening relations with them instead, giving them goodies like an F16 upgrade package. India's economy is back to the same old story of "unrealised potential"

Still, I'm happy this has happened. A west-aligned Pakistan (heavily held back by their population's views of the US and ties with China) is much better for China than a west-aligned India.
 
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by78

by78

General
It has been exactly 22 years since the first flight of Tejas, known at the time as the LCA. In the two plus decades since, 40 examples have been built, including all the prototype airframes. That's a production rate of less than two per year. Indians are fond of the phrase "slow and steady wins the race". They are certainly putting it into practice.

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B

Biscuits

Colonel
Registered Member
by78 said:
It has been exactly 22 years since the first flight of Tejas, known at the time as the LCA. In the two plus decades since, 40 examples have been built, including all the prototype airframes. That's a production rate of less than two per year. Indians are fond of the phrase "slow and steady wins the race". They are certainly putting it into practice.

52607226693_43677d6b73_b.jpg

52607226688_c9c5d7e357_h.jpg
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This is just subjective but I'm not a big fan of the design, it looks somewhat ramshackle and at a glance almost has questionable build quality.

That said, most 4gen look like that though. I'm just used to seeing the sleek 4.5 or 5 gen from PLAAF or USAF.

And regardless of the sanity of the Indian regime, it has to be appreciated that the LCA is the first jet fighter aircraft to be designed and built in the subcontinent.

Hence India has surpassed all of sub saharan Africa when it comes to aero industry, and taken a key step toward entering an era of modern warfare.

It is much better if India can be an ally of China rather than an enemy. And it is time for the nations in the subcontinent to realize their modern potential, rather than being permanently stuck in a new Indian Raj enslaved to the west, which will never allow Indian prosperity.
 
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