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aksha

Captain
just to add this,the last time Putin visited India
Modi says

" Russia will remain our most important defence partner "

is a very very important and interesting statement.
does bring the FGFA to mind

not to mention that Modi will be visiting russia twice this year.

it will be interesing to see what will come of it

at least 1 akula or 2 or 3




i still think this rafale deal is to give beathing room for the IAF to arrest squardon fall
i do not think the full 126 fighter package will be brought ,a lot of journalists are still commenting that MOD officials told them that the MMRCA deal was economically unviable
so this is all confusing:confused:
maybe they will just buy anothher 24 after all
allowing the old mmrca deal to die a slow death negotiiating and negotiating.
as per latest news
in 2017: squardons of mig21 and mig 27 retiring
in 2017:4 squardons of su30mki ,2 squardons of rafael,2 squardons of tejas mk1

some of the old mig21's will survive into the very early 2020's
they served the IAF well despite the crashes especially in the 1971 war
YzJTsFq.jpg
 
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thunderchief

Senior Member
i still think this rafale deal is to give beathing room for the IAF to arrest squardon fall
i do not think the full 126 fighter package will be brought ,a lot of journalists are still commenting that MOD officials told them that the MMRCA deal was economically unviable
so this is all confusing:confused:

IMHO, after the deal for 36 Rafales is signed (most likely in next 90 days) , Dassault would need at least 2 years to complete this initial order . Given the careful attitude of Indian government, I don't think anything significant would happen in that time frame .
Funds are limited , and going all for Rafale deal would jeopardize either FGFA or Tejas - it is unlikely that Modi's cabinet wants to that, at least not right now .
 

aksha

Captain
Funds are limited , and going all for Rafale deal would jeopardize either FGFA or Tejas - it is unlikely that Modi's cabinet wants to that, at least not right now .

its the tejas that i am worried about.
its open secret that the IAF wants to kill the tejas programme


see one of the retd. air marshals effectively saying saying that he tejas mk1 should be scrapped

compare the first speaker's statement with air warriors
the first speaker is retd. admiral ,fmr navy cheif Arun Prakash.
 
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aksha

Captain
High-level meeting in Paris tomorrow over Rafale sale to India

French President
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would chair a high-level meeting in Paris on Monday to thrash out the finer details of the nearly USD 5 billion deal for the sale of 36 Rafale jets to India in flyaway conditions.

French sources said the meeting at the Elysee Palace would be held between Hollande, his top officials and executives from Dassault Aviation, the manufacturers of the Rafale jets.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi, who concluded his four-day visit to France on Sunday, had asked France to supply 36 Rafale jets in flyaway conditions as soon as possible in view of the critical operational necessity of the Indian Air Force (IAF). The deal would be between the two governments.

"There was nobody, either from Indian side or the French side, when the two leaders spoke about the Rafale. Everyone would be briefed in detail on Monday about what transpired and discussions would be held on how it can be taken forward," sources said.
Defence Minister
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has said that the 36 Rafale fighter jets would be inducted into the IAF in two years. Sources said that two years is a fair time as a final contract needs to be negotiated and signed while production of planes will also take time.

The capacity of the Dassault plant is 36 aircraft per anum and the Indian version of the aircraft will have to be fine- tuned as per its requirement.

"The French already have an order from Egypt for 24 Rafale jets which has to be also delivered as soon as possible" sources said, pointing out that specific timelines will have to be worked out. One of the options that is being looked at is putting on hold the order for the French military and diverting them to meet India's immediate requirements.

Another issue that will come up for discussion is the pricing and also if the French government will be providing a tax holiday or some other concession to Dassault to bring down the prices of the aircraft for India.

Modi and Hollande had agreed to conclude an Inter- Governmental Agreement for supply of the aircraft on terms that would be better than conveyed by Dassault Aviation as part of a separate process underway, which is the MMRCA tender.

The delivery would be in time-frame that would be compatible with the operational requirement of IAF and the aircraft and associated systems and weapons would be delivered on the same configuration as had been tested and approved by IAF, and with a longer maintenance responsibility by France, a joint statement had said.

The general belief in France is that the order for 36 aircraft is different from the MMRCA tender for 126 aircraft which they believe will continue to be negotiated. It is not yet clear if the 36 jets are in addition to the MMRCA deal or whether it would be adjusted within the framework of the ongoing talks.

Under the original deal, 18 were to be bought off the shelf while 108 were to be manufactured by state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). The talks have been stuck over pricing and Dassault's refusal to stand guarantee for the jets to be manufactured by HAL. While initially the MMRCA contract was valued at about USD 10 billion, it has now shot over USD 20 billion.

The Request for Information for a Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft was issued in 2001 and a Request for Proposal was issued in 2007. Rafale was shortlisted in 2012. Officials from the Indian Defence Ministry as well as the IAF could not elaborate much about the deal for 36 Rafale jets saying it is being worked out by the Prime Minister's Office. While the 36 Rafale jets would be a shot in the arm of the IAF, it will not be able to counter the dwindling air power of the force. While the sanctioned strength of the IAF is 42 Squadrons, it is currently equipped with only 34.

Adding to the trouble is the phasing out of the ageing MiG 21s and MiG 27s in the coming years. Their draw-down is scheduled to start in 2017 but sources indicated that it might be extended for another year.

"There is a serious problem as new planes need to be inducted to make up for the phasing out. Then new planes are also needed to boost up our strength to the desired levels," Defence sources in New Delhi said.

On Saturday, Parrikar had said that the deal struck with France for purchase of 36 Rafale fighter jets will bring some "oxygen" to the IAF. IAF has been banking on the Rafale, the indigenously developed Light Combat Aircraft -- tejas and the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft deal with Russia, all the three of which are running behind schedule.
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aksha

Captain
mmrca dead dead
It's Final: #MMRCA Dead, Rafales Coming
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After a decade of speculation, intrigue, a generous measure of behind-the-scenes drama, finally some ironic clarity on the 'mother of all deals', India's massive combat jet acquisition effort, the M-MRCA. After committing to purchase 36 flyaway Rafales from Dassault last week, the Indian government today made it supremely clear that the M-MRCA process is effectively dead after careening earthward in a death spiral for over three years.

In a series of tweets today, MoD spokesperson Sitanshu Kar quoted Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar on the MMRCA:

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A car can not run on two paths simultaneoulsy: Defence Minister
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talking about the status of the existing RfP.

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Negotiation under the existing RfP had 'gone into a loop with no solution in sight': Defence Minister
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36 Rafale fighter aircraft to be acquired in fly away condition thru a separate G-2-G negotiation: Defence Minister
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G-2-G route better than the RfP path for acquisition of strategic platforms: Defence Minister Manohar
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thunderchief

Senior Member
Expected move . Modi is playing carefully with all sides . He is giving IAF something they want , but didn't let them behave like spoiled brat and blackmail him. Also, he's maintaining friendly relations with France, but not going to sped billions of India's money to rescue their defense industry . Finally, he is showing both Russia and domestic producers like HAL that they are not irreplaceable, and that Indian government could procure equipment from the West if need arise .

Rafale has future with IAF, but it would first have to prove itself with this initial batch, and then we shall see what would happen with subsequent orders .
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Modi is playing carefully with all sides .

He is giving IAF something they want...

he's maintaining friendly relations with France...

he is showing both Russia and domestic producers like HAL that they are not irreplaceable...

Rafale has future with IAF, but it would first have to prove itself .
Thunder, I agree.

I believe Modi made a deal for 36 Rafales to satisfy all sides...but also to put an end to a decade long process that was quagmired and going no where...but fueling endless speculation and hard feelings.

Now India will get 36 Rafales and if they perform, and if France is willing to firmly commit, India may get more.

But the emphasis is on the "may."

In the mean time, IMHO, M-MRCA is over in the form that awarded France over 120 Rafales. You can bet that India will be looking to fill that larger need at numerous options.
 
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