Makes perfect sense that it is a numbers vs ToT trade off. If India wants to realize its potential as a large power it must develop its domestic arms industry and not rely on any outside source. Clearly it is not an overnight process but in every arms deal it makes it should include as many provisions as possible leading towards capability of being self-sufficient in arms production.
Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
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Makes perfect sense that it is a numbers vs ToT trade off. If India wants to realize its potential as a large power it must develop its domestic arms industry and not rely on any outside source. Clearly it is not an overnight process but in every arms deal it makes it should include as many provisions as possible leading towards capability of being self-sufficient in arms production.
Skywatcher
Captain
Between this Indian buy, and the current Egyptian one, how fast can Dassault ramp up production of the Rafale (it seems like they're only building like about 10 a year right now, IIRC).
Zool
Junior Member
Are there any details yet on option to buy additional units? I thought the rumor of 60 aircraft was a bit low to add another entirely new airframe and support base to the IAF. At 36, the Rafale seems to fit a very niche role. In any case it will be the most advanced aircraft in IAF until T-50 arrives, so congrats to India on the new asset.
thunderchief
Senior Member
Traditionally, IAF maintained a comparatively smaller and separate fleet of Western (mostly French) aircraft for deep & precision strike and nuclear delivery . Jaguar, Mirage 2000, and now Rafale . These were never intended to compete for air superiority, or to give mundane low level CAS , but to attack high value and well defended targets .
IMHO, this is just a continuation of the tradition, with Rafale having a relatively low RCS and good EW suite (SPECTRA) but somewhat inferior radar compared to similar 4.5 and 5th gen fighters .
I
Marking a breakthrough in the protracted talks in the French Rafale jet deal, Prime Minister today announced that India will purchase 36 of these fighter planes that are ready to fly, citing critical operational requirement of the IAF.
The announcement was made by Modi at a joint news conference with French President Francois Hollange after their summit talks at Elysee palace.
Prime Minister Narendra Modi with the French President Francois Hollande, in Paris on 10 April 2015. Image courtesy PIB
India and France were locked in negotiations for three years over the purchase of 126 Rafale fighter jets valued at $12 billion but has been bogged down over cost and Dassault Aviation's reluctance to stand guarantee for 108 planes to be made by state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Limited(HAL).
"Keeping in mind critical operational necessity of fighter jets in India, I have talked to him(Hollande) and requested for 36 Rafale jets in fly-away condition as quickly as possible under government-to-government deal," Modi said.
An agreement on proceeding forward on the stalled nuclear project in Jaitapur in Maharashtra was among the 17 pacts signed after the talks between Modi and Hollande.
The Jaitapur project, where French company Areva is to set up six nuclear reactors with total power generation capacity of about 10,000 MW, is stuck for long because of differences over the cost of electricity to be generated.
The agreement between India's Larsen and Toubro and France's AREVA is aimed at cost reduction by increasing localisation, to improve financial viability of Jaitapur project.
Another pact related to Pre-engineering agreementsbetween NPCIL and AREVA in connection with studies that is intended to bring clarity on all technical aspects of the plant so that all parties(AREVA, ALSTOM and NPCIL) can firm up their price and optimise all provisions for risks still included at this stage in the costs of the project.
It will also enable transfer of technology and development of indigenous nuclear energy industry in India.
France also informed India of its decision to implement a scheme for expedited 48 hours visa issuance for Indian tourists.
"There is no such sphere where India and France are not cooperating. France is among India's most valued friend," Modi said.
France also announced an investment of €2 billion (about $1 billion) in India as Modi invited French
companies to pump in money in technology in the fastest growing economy.
France will invest 2 billion euros in India, Hollande announced at a CEO forum here.
Inviting French investors, Modi said, "There is no bigger market than India. It is also the fastest growing economy since the last six months. Various rating agencies like World Bank and Moodys have said in one voice that India is the fastest growing nation.
"It is rare to find a country with a market, with the government determined on development and demographic dividend. Investors are usually worried about the security of intellectual property (IP). Only democracies like India can guarantee that," he said.
Addressing a CEOs forum, Hollande said: "We are ready to allocate through French companies 2 billion euros to support India's sustainable development."
He said France will partner India in Urban development of infrastructure like railways and defence and nuclear sector.
Noting that President Hollande has supported 'Make in India' initiative especially in defence sector, Modi said at the joint news conference that the two countries have decided that the Rafale jets will be provided to India in modified terms and conditions.
"Today, we have taken defence cooperation between India and France to new levels."
"I had very good talks with President Hollande. Our defence sector ties are old. In defence equipment and
technology. France has always been a reliable supplier. From fighter jets to submarines, our ties have been foremost," he said.
Modi said that in the area of Nuclear power, France has been a major partner with India.
"I am happy that in Jaitapur, we have made progress on setting up 6 nuclear power projects. Both have signed an agreement on reducing the cost of power production and more technical support and further study.
Especially, Areva and L&T have signed an agreement for making forgings in India. I feel this agreement is very significant and will be a perfect example of 'Make in India' and will take India to a new place in the area of advance technology." he said.
On other issues, Modi noted that there is a challenging atmosphere in the world and that there is turbulence in different areas due to which all are affected. "In this changing world, there are a number of uncertain questions on tability."
"Terrorism is spreading and taking new shapes. This challenge is being tackled in different forms and to tackle that an extensive strategy is to be evolved. Be it Paris or Mumbai, India and France have understood each other," Modi said.
The prime minister said it is the responsibility of every nation to lend support in the fight against terror and not allow terror groups to take shelter and punish the terrorists as soon as possible.
"India and France similarly views these challenges and that is why we will further strengthen our security ties," he said.
Marking a breakthrough in the protracted talks in the French Rafale jet deal, Prime Minister today announced that India will purchase 36 of these fighter planes that are ready to fly, citing critical operational requirement of the IAF.
The announcement was made by Modi at a joint news conference with French President Francois Hollange after their summit talks at Elysee palace.
Prime Minister Narendra Modi with the French President Francois Hollande, in Paris on 10 April 2015. Image courtesy PIB
India and France were locked in negotiations for three years over the purchase of 126 Rafale fighter jets valued at $12 billion but has been bogged down over cost and Dassault Aviation's reluctance to stand guarantee for 108 planes to be made by state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Limited(HAL).
"Keeping in mind critical operational necessity of fighter jets in India, I have talked to him(Hollande) and requested for 36 Rafale jets in fly-away condition as quickly as possible under government-to-government deal," Modi said.
An agreement on proceeding forward on the stalled nuclear project in Jaitapur in Maharashtra was among the 17 pacts signed after the talks between Modi and Hollande.
The Jaitapur project, where French company Areva is to set up six nuclear reactors with total power generation capacity of about 10,000 MW, is stuck for long because of differences over the cost of electricity to be generated.
The agreement between India's Larsen and Toubro and France's AREVA is aimed at cost reduction by increasing localisation, to improve financial viability of Jaitapur project.
Another pact related to Pre-engineering agreementsbetween NPCIL and AREVA in connection with studies that is intended to bring clarity on all technical aspects of the plant so that all parties(AREVA, ALSTOM and NPCIL) can firm up their price and optimise all provisions for risks still included at this stage in the costs of the project.
It will also enable transfer of technology and development of indigenous nuclear energy industry in India.
France also informed India of its decision to implement a scheme for expedited 48 hours visa issuance for Indian tourists.
"There is no such sphere where India and France are not cooperating. France is among India's most valued friend," Modi said.
France also announced an investment of €2 billion (about $1 billion) in India as Modi invited French
companies to pump in money in technology in the fastest growing economy.
France will invest 2 billion euros in India, Hollande announced at a CEO forum here.
Inviting French investors, Modi said, "There is no bigger market than India. It is also the fastest growing economy since the last six months. Various rating agencies like World Bank and Moodys have said in one voice that India is the fastest growing nation.
"It is rare to find a country with a market, with the government determined on development and demographic dividend. Investors are usually worried about the security of intellectual property (IP). Only democracies like India can guarantee that," he said.
Addressing a CEOs forum, Hollande said: "We are ready to allocate through French companies 2 billion euros to support India's sustainable development."
He said France will partner India in Urban development of infrastructure like railways and defence and nuclear sector.
Noting that President Hollande has supported 'Make in India' initiative especially in defence sector, Modi said at the joint news conference that the two countries have decided that the Rafale jets will be provided to India in modified terms and conditions.
"Today, we have taken defence cooperation between India and France to new levels."
"I had very good talks with President Hollande. Our defence sector ties are old. In defence equipment and
technology. France has always been a reliable supplier. From fighter jets to submarines, our ties have been foremost," he said.
Modi said that in the area of Nuclear power, France has been a major partner with India.
"I am happy that in Jaitapur, we have made progress on setting up 6 nuclear power projects. Both have signed an agreement on reducing the cost of power production and more technical support and further study.
Especially, Areva and L&T have signed an agreement for making forgings in India. I feel this agreement is very significant and will be a perfect example of 'Make in India' and will take India to a new place in the area of advance technology." he said.
On other issues, Modi noted that there is a challenging atmosphere in the world and that there is turbulence in different areas due to which all are affected. "In this changing world, there are a number of uncertain questions on tability."
"Terrorism is spreading and taking new shapes. This challenge is being tackled in different forms and to tackle that an extensive strategy is to be evolved. Be it Paris or Mumbai, India and France have understood each other," Modi said.
The prime minister said it is the responsibility of every nation to lend support in the fight against terror and not allow terror groups to take shelter and punish the terrorists as soon as possible.
"India and France similarly views these challenges and that is why we will further strengthen our security ties," he said.
Agree Chief, only thing big Jaguar fleet 120.
Yes Rafale radar is less good than its main 4.5 gen competitors i talk for AESA ofc for export.
RBE-2 AESA range 120+km/1m2 target, 180+/5 a little better as APG-80 on F-16E/F which get also 1000 modules maybe Rafale have 1100 modules in fact Rafale have a more small noise, less modules range inferior to others which have 1200 + modules :
F-22, Su-35 etc... ofc but mainly her its main rival Typhoon :
CAPTOR PESA 124+/1m2, 185+/5 m2
CAESAR AESA 1500 modules, 200 ; 300 km, F-22 do better with APG-78.
The 2 best APG-78 and Irbis which is an PESA him.
But Rafale is polyvalent completely intercept, Bombing, recc, CM, AsHM for Navy variant, Typhoon not, in some years only, same range for the two and Typhoon want about 10% more.
Deal stay to signed and fast if Dassault want buy because India have in mind 2 others fighters want save money for her... then 36 now or 0... possible an option 30 max.
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