Also, India is bordering China, so need to take Chinese-Pakistan relationship into account if she wants to make a move.
Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
- Thread starter bd popeye
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Also, India is bordering China, so need to take Chinese-Pakistan relationship into account if she wants to make a move.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
I think Asif was referring more to the outcomes of the numerous wars India and Pakistan has fought before. You don't go around invading your neighbours just to prove you can, but when you do have a fight with a nation a fraction of your size and population, you'd expect to maybe do better than what the Indians managed against Pakistan.
Your counter point would have been better made had you chosen Vietnam rather than Korea, since China was in effect fighting against America and most of the west in Korea, but the Vietnamese did give the PLA a tough fight during the boarder wars, which just proves the old saying that its less important how big your stick is and more so how well you use it.
This article clearly has undertones of 'let's pit India and China against each other'.
Such sentiments do not benefit India or China and exacerbate the naturally very few and mitigable sources of conflict between two countries making demonstrable progress towards legitimate ambitions as regional powers or 'poles' in a 'multipolar' world.
I am disappointed that some of the comments here have been tempted to be more disparaging and acrimonious than can ever be warranted when objectively analyzing and comparing various militaries. This only plays into creating animosity between India and China for no good reason.
These two countries face very different geopolitical circumstances, therefore they pursue very different national development strategies, which is reflected in their different defence strategies. China's capabilities in absolute terms may be more advanced in some areas as they need to be due to them facing numerically more as well as more advanced potential adversaries than India does. In context both militaries are roughly as effective since they are sufficient to deter likely potential adversaries.
You are trying to balance a view too much that it ignores some of the facts around the subject
I might as well say China military is just as effective as US' in deterring each other or other potential adversaries.
The pecking order is clear and well established, India is behind China no matter how one tries to explain in various ways.
To say both are equally effective is ridiculous.
Animosity is good, one does not build a house just with flowers and laces, you need hammer and nails as well.
asif iqbal
Banned Idiot
Either you don't understand the issue or don't know the history, Indo-Pak has fight 4 wars, more than half dozen engagements, Incidents and stand offs with the last one at the beginning of this year 2013
Issue isn't what India does, it's the attitude they give, I mean when the Y-20 first flew, Indians were saying that it doesn't have a have a rear cargo door!? I mean come on its a prototype for heavens sake, always ready to discount anything anyone else does yet show off themselves as leaders in the process, I remember hearing same thing that JF-17 will never fly, then it will never be a operational aircraft, then it will get a export and on and on
I hope we can live side by side and we never see another war or border clash, we share a border and will do for a long time to come so it's in our best interest to keep lid on things, however in this particular case I do know that there won't be lasting peace until all of the issues are resolved from North to South, which are very unlikely to be resolved, only solution is deterrence by keep building military
The plan for the Vikramaditya is that sea trials will start on 3 july and will end somewhere in october of this year. Then on 15 november the ship will be officially handed over to the Indian Navy and shortly after that she will set sail to her new home port at Karwar in Karnataka state India. But there is nothing to fear from the Vikramaditya. With one of the weirdest deck and elevator configurations air ops on the Vikramaditya will be slooooow going. And the ship can carry a very limited amount of aviation fuel for a air wing of 16 MiG-29K's and about 10 helicopters meaning it can only generate limited amount of sorties. I have argued on this forum before that India would have been better off just leave the Vikramaditya behind in Russia and save her self the money buying and operating this dock queen. And perhabs invest that money towards the domestic carrier program.
Procurement works in a mysterious way in rat infested bureaucratic mindef/governments
Not that China is exactly clean, but the difference is the must do mentality.
The Vikramaditya is one of the biggest defense deal fiasco out there. The deal should have been scrapped back door, instead India and Russia do this funny ritual of media release exchange explaining what and what like they have never met in a meeting
MwRYum
Major
If they've knew this'd turn out with such cost overshot and schedule delays, they'd not have taken the deal...to be fair, back then their domestic programme is progressing too slowly yet the serving carrier is showing its age, thus the Russian deal, at least at that time, seems to be a quick, cheap and painless one, just toss in some money...even if the MiG-29K have delays the deck can deploy Harrier if need be.
But the Indians have underestimate the complexity of the whole thing, including the fact that the Russian have to rebuild a whole shipbuilding industry to serve the project.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Well its less a case of 20-20 hindsight and more to do with project management and even common sense.
The state of the Russian shipbuilding industry was never a secret, and some pointed questions should have been asked right at the start regarding the feasibility of the original Russian offer and assurances sought.
Then, when Russia pulled their 'renegotiation' trick to blackmail the Indians for more money, they should have countered with an ultimatum that the Russians complete the contract as per the originally agreed price and schedule, or they would not only cancel that deal but put all other contracts with Russia on hold, as China did when Russia tried to pull the same crap with the Il76 transports and tankers.
The worst thing is India didn't seem to have learnt a thing from this fiasco, and appears to be falling for the same trick a second time with the PAKFA. Already there are talks of schedule slips and cost overruns. Who wanna bet we won't be seeing a repeat of history there?
antiterror13
Brigadier
well, you only can do that (what China did) if you have the power. For India, unfortunately is not the case, India has no option