How important is Iran to China?

Well, we don't know if fc17 is really gonna be 15 million, or 20 or bit more. But that's still one hell of a cheap fighter for what it offers. It can not possibly be over 40 mill with all the support equipment, armament, etc. Closest thing in its class, gripen, is some 90 million with all the support/equipment/weapons, 73 mil being fly away price. Or f16 that poland got, 55 million fly away price, final price per plane 83 million.

su30mk2 that china got in....i believe it was 2002? , those costed 40 million a piece. I believe that's fly away price but it's still hell of a lot cheaper than f15, still cheaper than f18. Of course, capabilities are diffrent...and are hard to assess.

As for iran... fortifying its comm network, making it redundant, getting new sam systems (haven't heard they have s300 but i do believe there were some articles they got some tor batteries. can anyone confirm?) - thats all nice and dandy but it takes time to implement. At least months to probably a year. More for really good training. I guess Iran just doesn't see itself being attacked anytime soon. Which may be true... it does seem like there's more to be lost than gained in the long run by postponing iran's nuclear program with an airstrike due to the unrest in world's oil economy.

Just a correction, the mkk2s were recieved in 2004.
The fact that the jf-17 can attain a 15 million $ dollar pirce is incredible seeing how the plane's only production is for export. There are no military orders to drive the price down, an advantage which the f-16 and gripen both have.

The FC-1 and the F-15 are not equivalent...
They were created during different eras. When I say equivalent, I mean same purpose, same role, same technology, same time period. And it is arguable whether FC-1 is superior to the first models of F-15s anyways.

FriedRiceNSpice said:

The FC-1 and the F-15 are not equivalent...
They were created during different eras. When I say equivalent, I mean same purpose, same role, same technology, same time period. And it is arguable whether FC-1 is superior to the first models of F-15s anyways.

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well how much does a T-98 cost it got to be less then T-90 or abrams

J-10 VS F-16 is also an example

It really doesn't matter in current situation, the West will never sell it weapon to Iran. Iran can only get any thing decent of China and Russia.

Mind we go bak to topic

Here is a some question?
How far do u think the US will go to stop Iran?

more important
How far do u think China will go to help protect Iran?

Cos it really hard for us to said how important is Iran to the Chinese leader!
But by seeing the reaction they give we can have a wild guess.

Nethappy said:

It really doesn't matter in current situation, the West will never sell it weapon to Iran. Iran can only get any thing decent of China and Russia.

Mind we go bak to topic

Here is a some question?
How far do u think the US will go to stop Iran?

more important
How far do u think China will go to help protect Iran?

Cos it really hard for us to said how important is Iran to the Chinese leader!
But by seeing the reaction they give we can have a wild guess.

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I think that is the more important question, so will you guys stop talking about weapons prices and GET BACK TO THE TOPIC!!!
Realistically, I don't think the Americans will want to launch a full-scale invasion of Iran. They don't want another Iraq. I think an airstrike is the most likely option - but it might not completely destroy Iran's nuclear programme. Even after the Israeli air force bombed the Osirak reactor, Saddam was still able to maintain an active nuclear programme. It only stopped after the Gulf war due to U.N. sanctions.
Sanctions would not do much, and it would annoy China, who imports Iran's oil and may VETO or not even recognise the sanctions.
China would help in the least direct and most inconspicous way possible. The PLA wouldn't set up their own SAM bases in Iran to protect it, for example. As I have said, the most likely option would be to supply Iran with modern SAMs, AAA, Radar, communications and control systems so that it is capable of shooting down an attacking American aircraft. And there definetly would be PLA technicians and advisors in Iran to provide assistance. China could always deny that it ever did this, like it did with Iraq.

Realistically!!!
Is bombing Iran Americans only option if all diplomatic option fail to force Iran to stop there enrichment operation?
No. they can always learn to live with it cos most likely one of the main reason the Iran want the bomb is cos the Americans.

There was never any chance negotiate would of success while the US is,
1) Pushing for a regime change
2) Doesn't accept the existence of an Iranian Islamic Republic
3) Being labelling as part of the 'axis of evil'
4) Having troop in there backyards after the invasion of Ex member of 'axis of evil' Iraq.
The answer is NO

Iran has a low history of invasions and is always wary of it neighbors, and now encirled by countries that possess the atom bombs: Russian, Pakistan, India, Israel and the USA. It just see the nuclear card as a way to buy security guarantees for the counrty. So as long as they feel threated nothing going stop them from getting the bomb.

How long would an airstike slow the Iran nuke program, at best 3-4 years. You can bomb the nuclear sites, air defence and retaliation machinery at much as you want, but you can't bomb know-how.

The cost of a miliary would well outweight the benefits, I repeat many time the kinda reaction Iran most likey give dun wanna repeat again.

The PLA wouldn't set up their own SAM bases in Iran to protect it, for example. As I have said, the most likely option would be to supply Iran with modern SAMs, AAA, Radar, communications and control systems so that it is capable of shooting down an attacking American aircraft. And there definetly would be PLA technicians and advisors in Iran to provide assistance. China could always deny that it ever did this, like it did with Iraq.

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True PLa wouldn't set up their own SAM bases in Iran to protect it, but it would supply Iran with modern SAMs, AAA, Radar and C3I. But I dun find any need for the Chinese to deny anything. If China supply C-802 to Iran, nothing will stop them from supply AD equipment to Iran. What can the Europeans or Americans saction and already sactioned miltiary tech trade. Saction Chinese economy and slow down and damage thier own economy while they at it.

Americans dun really have any option, unless they are willing to negotiate, without all these criticize, threat and all the other stuff.

Has anybody READ Emanual Todd's book "End of Empire" ?

He has a fascinating perspective on future international relations

Nethappy said:

It really doesn't matter in current situation, the West will never sell it weapon to Iran. Iran can only get any thing decent of China and Russia.
Mind we go bak to topic
Here is a some question?
How far do u think the US will go to stop Iran?
more important
How far do u think China will go to help protect Iran?
Cos it really hard for us to said how important is Iran to the Chinese leader!
But by seeing the reaction they give we can have a wild guess.

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1) The US is willing to drop precision/stand-off munitions on critical Iranian nuclear facilities.
2) The PRC may complain loudly, but take no action.

The UN Security Council, which includes the PRC, voted unanimously last week to give Iran 30 days to suspend its uranium enrichment. IAEA inspectors are arriving in Iran this month to confirm Iran's compliance.

If Iran comply with the order and place its nuclear facilities under IAEA monitoring, then the US will have no justification for attacking Iran over the nuclear issue. To quote US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice:

"I think this does send a very strong signal to Iran that the international community is united and expects Iran to adhere to the just demands... that its nuclear activities be demonstrably for civilian purposes and that there are ways that Iran can have a civil nuclear programme, that's not an issue."

I think we all know that Iran has plenty of hydrocarbon reserves and does not need nuclear power for its energy needs. While the US is not opposed to Iran having a civlian nuclear program, it's not willing to accept a nuclear-armed Iran because that would hamper, or even eliminate conventional military option against Iran (possibly) sometime in the future. The Iranians, on the other hand, sees a nuclear stockpile as insurance against US invasion, of which the Iranians cannot possibly defeat with conventional weapons.

From China's self-interest point of view, as long as the US does not blocade, invade, or occupy Iran, having the USAF drop a couple bombs on Iranian nuclear facilities will have little or no long-term impact on PRC's ability to import oil and gas from Iran. Also, by dropping bombs on Iran, it may push the Iranians closer toward China & Russia, and put more effort on land-based pipes for hydrocarbon exports to the PRC.

It's not to the PRC's advantage of have a nuclear-armed Iran... the kind of fallout that may occur from an Israeli-Iranian nuclear exchange would cause serious harm to the world economy.

The UN Security Council, which includes the PRC, voted unanimously last week to give Iran 30 days to suspend its uranium enrichment. IAEA inspectors are arriving in Iran this month to confirm Iran's compliance.

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Yes, the UN Security COuncil did unanimously or generally voted last week to give Iran 30 days to suspend its uranium enrichment. BUT Russia and China has stated it will be against any hard sanction or military action to be taken aganist Iran. Both countries has VETO power within the Security Council. Pls dun take pieces out of news that could help your arguement, use the whole piece.

I think we all know that Iran has plenty of hydrocarbon reserves and does not need nuclear power for its energy needs. While the US is not opposed to Iran having a civlian nuclear program, it's not willing to accept a nuclear-armed Iran because that would hamper, or even eliminate conventional military option against Iran (possibly) sometime in the future. The Iranians, on the other hand, sees a nuclear stockpile as insurance against US invasion, of which the Iranians cannot possibly defeat with conventional weapons.

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As I said once again, why would Iran need a Nuclear weapon so that it has an insurance against US invasion if it don't feel threated in the frist place. The US are not willing to accept another nuclear-armed country just because it would eliminate the prossibly of an US invasion of that country (possibly) sometime in the future. What kinda reasoning is that?

Well IMO many European country and the US is trying to use this so-call crisis to take attention of domestic problem.

From China's self-interest point of view, as long as the US does not blocade, invade, or occupy Iran, having the USAF drop a couple bombs on Iranian nuclear facilities will have little or no long-term impact on PRC's ability to import oil and gas from Iran. Also, by dropping bombs on Iran, it may push the Iranians closer toward China & Russia, and put more effort on land-based pipes for hydrocarbon exports to the PRC.

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China's self interest is to keep it growing economic growing. A few bombs dropped on Iran will have a greater impact on not just the China but the world economic then u think. The rise of oil price in recent year already created a great problem for Business, especially in the transportation sector. This include the USA.

China import 14% of it gas from Iran anything which could effect this supply or push oil world oil price up will create a major problem for it oil hunger economic.

Insurgent in Iraq's, turmoil in Nigeria, Hurricane KATRINA and continous possibility of OPEC production cut has already toll on oil price. So it in the world interest to keep oil price down.

Even without the bomb dropped this whole crisis would already push the Iranians closer toward China & Russia.

It's not to the PRC's advantage of have a nuclear-armed Iran... the kind of fallout that may occur from an Israeli-Iranian nuclear exchange would cause serious harm to the world economy.

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A nuclear exchange between Israeli-Iranian, is never going happen and we all know it. A fear of Nuclear exchange may force the two country on the table.
There really NO possibly of any Nuclear exchange between any Nuclear armed country in the world, cos everyone know what the outcome would be. The Bomb is seen more as a bargaining tool nowaday, everyone who is armed with the bomb have a bigger voice.