How important is Iran to China?

SteelBird

Colonel
:eek:ff I think you all have gone off topic! No one seems talk about is Iran important to China or how import it is to China. :)

But let me ask one more off topic question: Nowaday, the world all fighting for oil, do you how long does it take for oil to run out? And what will happen then?
 
coolieno99 said:
Assuming Russian and Chinese cost are about the same, his speculation may have some truth to it. Here's an excerpt taken from Globalsecurity.org:

The S-300V (SA-12) low-to-high Altitude, tactical surface to air missile system also has anti-ballistic missile capabilities. The HQ-18 is reportedly the designation of a Chinese copy of the Russian S300V, though the details of this program remain rather conjectural. In early 1996 Russia astounded the United States Army by marketing the Russian SA-12 surface-to-air missile system in the UAE in direct competition with the United States Army's Patriot system. Rosvooruzheniye offered the UAE the highest-quality Russian strategic air defense system, the SA-12 Gladiator, as an alternative to the Patriot at half the cost. The offer also included forgiveness of some of Russia's debt to the UAE.

Yes, there may be examples of certain Chinese/Russian weapons systems that are half the cost of American equivalents, but there are many other cases where they are not. Mig 29s are not half as costly as F-16s. Su-27s are not half as costly as F-15s. Also, you cannot say one weapons system is x% as capable as another. Capability cannot be measured in numerical, quantitive terms.
 

Nethappy

NO WAR PLS
VIP Professional
Well really doesn't matter, Iran is improtant to China. As China is improtant to Iran.

Why Iran is important to China
1) Iran should be one of China way into Middle east affair.
2) Iran is one of the few option china has into middle east supply of oil. As most the other place is alrady dominated by the USA.
3) Iran is China political tool, with the extensive economic ties between and China and Iran (the large amount of money China has invested in Iran), China has some kinda political Influence over Iran. It like a bargaining chip as North Korea is.

Why China important to Iran
1) China will buy there oil, no matter what people said.
2) Chinese dollar, they need to investment.
3) They know they have something China need, so China is kinda Iran political too, e.g. U.N national Security counil, China said it would veto any hard-line santions.
4) China is a county which would almost sell Iran any weapon it need, expect the nuke.

Well in the end of the day, if Iran want to get a nuke, there is nothing anyone can do about it, it just a whole political show of words!

1) Israel Airstike not going to do much, maybe hold i back for a few year and if the Israel do attack in anyway would turn thew Palestinian/Israel border into a bloodbath.
IMO I think the Iranian should buy more Air defence stuff of China.

2) US airstrike maybe, invasion is impossible the US military is overstretched, and attacking Iran isn't the same as Iraq or Afhgan, Iran going to be 100 time harder to deal with then Iraq will ever be. Most important any kinda attack would most likely turn Iraq in a bloodbath and maybe even the Afhgan.

3) Most European country are to afraid of terrorist attack or sometime like 911 happening in it country to ever consider Military action is an option.

4) UN SC, any heavy santion that would affect the Chinese and Russian would Veto it cos it who hurt there economic intrest and even if the west manage to get some kinda santion though the UN SC, Iran still got it Oil money.

5) Every nation know if anything happen it going affect the oil price, and it going to hurt every economically.

It really doesn't matter if the Iran has the bomb, cos it would never use it, I dun think any country with the bomb nowday would use it. The Iranian leader a not stupid, they know if they ever use one they a going be bombed off the map of the world or at lease bak to stone age and I can insure by then not even the Chinese or Russian will side with them. They would also do everything within there power to stop these nuke from reaching these terrorist, cos they know if any thing happen with nuke involvement they are going to take a very large part of the blame. You gotta understand, supply AK, RPG, and C4 to them is different then supplying a nuke. Anyway it all just for a political show, a sign of national pride and most important nation security.

No matter how crazy there President may seem, I still dun blame them for trying so damn hard to get the bomb. Having their country labelling as part of the 'axis of evil', and seeing the same nation who creating the so call 'axis of evil' invade Iraq (ex member of 'axis of evil') and having load of troop rite in there backyards, they have every reason to be worry.

If the west is really dat concern about so call Iran threatening to wipe Israel off the face of the map, and denying them the right to nuclear weapons. They
should really look into the Israel problem frist, they have the nuke although they didn't use it, Israel has almost already wiped Palestine off the face of the map. If the Israel/Palestine broader isn't a messes, I dun thinke the Iranian would ever make such threat. "WHAT IF" India was about to wipe Pak of the face of the world and China treat to wipe India of the face of the world, would dat deny China right to nuclear weapons, who the West make such a big fuss about China as they a make about Iran. I know it never going happen so remenber I said WHAT IF. But it the same thing just happening in different place.

Sorry. I cannot express it any other way. You cannot stop anyine from doing anything, if they are really intent on doing it, you can only make them wish they had not. A foreign policy which promotes Fear of Consequences is a far better way for a major power to conduct itself than any potentially mistaken Pre-Emptive policy. It is wholly demeaning and unmanly and if I were to adopt it I would earn only the contempt of my ancestors in Valhalla

This I agree with ya, and some time Fear of Pre-Emptive may push leader into doing something stupid they wouldn't off normally.

Well, if the USA or Israel attack Iran, the biggest loser will be China. In other words, can China sustain oil prices of 150 US dollars per barrel if the whole Mideast along with the Persian Gulf becomes a warzone? If Iran closes oil shipping, the WHOLE WORLD will suffer!

Well for your info the biggest loser will not be China, but the USA. If the Middleeast and persian Gulf becomes a warzone because of a USA or Israel attack, USA going be rite in the middle of if. The rise of oil prices and the stopping of shipping though the persian gulf may cause a economic problem for the Chinese, but like-wisethe rest of the world, it going hurt everyone one. But on one in Asian or Western world will feel it bad at the USA think of the cost of the war, cost of life, the chance of another 911 happening and the economic problem (The shape of the USA economcally isn't the of all, for your info it actuality in some kinda crise at the moment). It could be worse then the great depression for the world and to USA also worse then vietnam war will ever be.
 

DPRKPTboat

Junior Member
OK, so we've got some idea about the relations between Iran and China - now anwnser my question. Is it possible that China may help in Modernising Iran's air defence so it can protect its nuclear facilities from attacking U.S. aircraft? There were some rumours that China and North Korea helped to partially rebuild the Iraqi air defence system - their new fibre-optic cables may have come from either country. China may try a similar thing with Iran - that would make an air strike risky.
I think a repeat of the Osirak incident is possible and may happen - its the only option left If Bush really wants to prevent Iran from having a nuclear programme. But I think it could result in the downing of a plane and the possible capture of a pilot, if China helps modernise Iran's air defences - and if you see all those flak cannons stationed around Bushehr and Natanz, its clear that the Iranians expect an attack, and so would want better SAMs and AAA.
 

Su-34

New Member
If Iran has many S-300 batteries and Tor M-1s, Iran no need fear air attack. So, this means Iran has adequate air defence. If not, they wouldn't have resumed nuclear activities.
 

DPRKPTboat

Junior Member
Su-34 said:
If Iran has many S-300 batteries and Tor M-1s, Iran no need fear air attack. So, this means Iran has adequate air defence. If not, they wouldn't have resumed nuclear activities.

Do they posess either of these missiles? Russia sure has been handing out its weapons to a lot of people. I'm not so sure how many they would have though. Those AA guns outside Natanz look very old...
But what about communication and tracking in their system? I hear that Iranian strategic radar is mostly old Chinese Miao-9. Their radar is only about as good as Iraqi radar in both Gulf wars. And that sucked. It didn't detect aircraft flying low-level strike missions, which I think will be the tactic used in an airstrike on Natanz or Bushehr. And how modern is their communication system? Is it fibre optic cables or just guys using telephones? China could help there to, given their growing electronics industry.
 

DPRKPTboat

Junior Member
Here's an article on the Iraqi air defence system. There is a brief mention of how China may have helped to rebuild it. I see every possibility that it will also attempt to enhance the Iranian system. Look under residential sites at the 6th paragraph:

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Iraq's repairs to its overall control system are said to have included the installation of fibre optic communication cables.

These were allegedly of Chinese origin - though both China and Iraq denied press reports to that effect.

British defence sources have also said that Serbia, under the former President Milosevic, helped to rebuild underground air defence facilities in Iraq.
 

Nethappy

NO WAR PLS
VIP Professional
1) U.S. Airstike is no an option, unless a reallly risking a bloodbath in Iraq.

To your question!
IMO, yes China mostly likely help in modernising Iran's air defence so it can protect its nuclear facilities from attacking U.S. aircraft.

1) Instability, in term of a major war or bloodbath in the middle-east is the last thing China would want or need cos it need to oil feed it oil hungry.

2) It could use it capablities too enchance Iranian Air defence as a bagraining chip when they signing the oil contract.

3) It would give China a chance to sell it weapon aboad and possible have they weapon tested in real combat.

4) If the a Chinese upgraded Iranian Air defence manage to down a US plane, it would add great creditability to the chinese technogly, and in a China way, it we gain a lot of face. But if it dun, they can just shoulder all the blame on the Iranian with stuff like, they had not had enough training, or it was a Iranian technical mistake dat cause the system to fail, etc.

If Iran has many S-300 batteries and Tor M-1s, Iran no need fear air attack. So, this means Iran has adequate air defence. If not, they wouldn't have resumed nuclear activities.
Well IMO it more like HQ-9 (FT-2000), fully integrated with FM-80/FM-90, I reckon it may not be the brightest thing out there but.. it still be read effective.
 

DPRKPTboat

Junior Member
Nethappy said:
To your question!
IMO, yes China mostly likely help in modernising Iran's air defence so it can protect its nuclear facilities from attacking U.S. aircraft.

1) Instability, in term of a major war or bloodbath in the middle-east is the last thing China would want or need cos it need to oil feed it oil hungry.

2) It could use it capablities too enchance Iranian Air defence as a bagraining chip when they signing the oil contract.

3) It would give China a chance to sell it weapon aboad and possible have they weapon tested in real combat.

4) If the a Chinese upgraded Iranian Air defence manage to down a US plane, it would add great creditability to the chinese technogly, and in a China way, it we gain a lot of face. But if it dun, they can just shoulder all the blame on the Iranian with stuff like, they had not had enough training, or it was a Iranian technical mistake dat cause the system to fail, etc.


Well IMO it more like HQ-9 (FT-2000), fully integrated with FM-80/FM-90, I reckon it may not be the brightest thing out there but.. it still be read effective.

Indeed. Not only would China gain a propaganda victory from the fact that its missiles are able to shoot down U.S. aircraft, but it would also be useful to Iran - not only would it also be a propaganda sucess for them to shoot down a U.S. aggressor, but the capture of a pilot could be just as useful to them as a bargaining chip as Gary Powers was to the Soviet Union.
You're right about Iran using Chinese idigenous missiles. I don't think China would give up its S-300s. If Iran wnated those, it would have to look to Russia.
 

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
FriedRiceNSpice said:
Yes, there may be examples of certain Chinese/Russian weapons systems that are half the cost of American equivalents, but there are many other cases where they are not. Mig 29s are not half as costly as F-16s. Su-27s are not half as costly as F-15s. Also, you cannot say one weapons system is x% as capable as another. Capability cannot be measured in numerical, quantitive terms.

Earlier (70's models) of the f-15 was a little over $25 million a piece(In 1976, isreal bought some in 1976 for 16$ million a piece). The modern jf-17, which is almost definitly superior to the 70's f-15s(Radar, missles, safety), only costs 15 million dollars.
 
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