How can and How should PLAN improve it self?
- Thread starter Nethappy
- Start date
If they're looking for improvements, I say PLAN should focus on completing the Type 093 submarine and field them in sufficient numbers. That would be a big boost to overall naval capability for PLAN.
Also finish the Type 054 FFG. Improve ASW in the Type 054. Maybe make that the sole focus of the platform.
Also finish the Type 054 FFG. Improve ASW in the Type 054. Maybe make that the sole focus of the platform.
The PLAN needs to raise its coodination capability, allowing the fleet to support each other. Also, the PLAN needs to develop a powerful core that can act as an expeditionary force with a small carrier or two. To defned China's increasingly global economic interests.
Last edited:
I think that PLAN should improve blue water capabilities, increase number of fleet support ships, finish carrier, build 2-4 LHD ships and create Hi – low mix modern surface combatants whit type052 DDGs and type054 FFG… Focus on multirole ships and not waste resources on backup designs like type051c… Reduce number of different types of ships and equipment because that would simplify training and logistics… Improve ASW capabilities and try to improve ship replenishment at sea…
PLAN should also improve training; ships should spend more time on sea...
PLAN should also improve training; ships should spend more time on sea...
MIGleader
Banned Idiot
Good idea. the design of the forward area of 167 clearly implies that VLS was meant to be fitted. But perhaps the missle system wasnt ready yet. But now it is.
The first two are already in service. But the rate of production is really slow. We might only see 6 or less. by the end of the decade.
Definitely.
The 51c is nto a backup design. Its a highly effective yet cost saving air-defence weapon for the morth sea fleet. The PLAN is probably not ready for more 52c style units yet.
Since the commision of the Qiandaohu class, we havnt seen any further units under construction. Anyone know why?
IMO, the PLAN should strip the Luda's and Jiangweis of all their guns and missles and turn them into dedicated ASW platforms, with advanced sonar centers and towed sonar. Also fit several ASW rockets on them ,as well as torpedoes. Give each a helicopter deck to land z-9c's.
MIGleader said:
I assume that development of 2 AAW DDG classes, whit one using state of the art but still unproven Chinese indigenous systems and other on old hull whit imported Russian systems does not look like backup to you? As for saving costs PLAN could build 6 052c DDG instead of 3 different classes and by doing so lower the unit costs… Now consider future units of 052c class and you may assume that unit price could be louvered significantly…
MIGleader said:
Well if we look at money spend in Luda's modernization and age of those ships I personally think that they should be replaced by type054 FFG whit improved ASW capabilities and retired in next 10 years…
As for Jiangweis they are useful for patrol and OPV roles only…
Striping this ships current equipment and installing modern ASW equipment only would be expensive and insufficient use of limited resources PLAN has… It would be much better if China would use type054 FFG for that role…
Not to mention that modern navies don’t use single role ships but prefer modern multirole ships which can be used for different types of missions without depending on other ships for defenses…
MIGleader
Banned Idiot
Construction of the 51c class began in 2004, when the 52c's had just been completed. The PLAN still wanted some time to test out the new sensors and weapons of the 52c. Yet, they wanted a quick solution to provide capable air-defence to the north sea fleet, which was seriourly lacking in modern warships at the time. So the PLAN salvaged an older but proven design and fitted it some russian weapons as a solution. I have no doubt we will see construction of a 52c follow-up very soon.
The big man G will say otherwise.
Take this quote from one PM he sent me:
So if you question that, debate HIM, not me.
Since the PLAN is really lacking of ASW, giving a facelift to the ludas would serve as a good near-term solution, while a more advnaced dedicated vessel can be built later.
before there even was any sinodefence site, and Luhai was just commisioned there was rumours and reports that second ship was building. And it would eventually be fitted with long desired modern SAM system, propriate to the size of the ships. 115 was that ship and usually I tend to cross year 1997 of beeing the year when it begun to build. Who knows why it has taken so long to complete, but i would back up whit Istvanh that it is a mere back up desing...or more propeply an opportunity to add another modern AAW ship to the fleet that despretly needs them. Maybe it is some indicate that chinese made SAMs in 052Cs arent att all statisfactory and need of russian help is required...but i guess no one hopes that it would be true
116 in otherhand exist in only some very dubious pictures released in internet. (read= faked photoshop)
Anyway, as for the topic (wich is like volume 35 in sinodefence forum's 1.5 year existence) I would go on whit the lines of making "mass-producaple" products out of the most intresting desings, Yuan, 093 and 054. this would adequotely repair most inferiorityes of PLAN in manner that wouldnt be too complicate, but not yet too short sited solutions. In the past PLAN has managed to compensate its obsolence and lack of adequte technical know-how in naval devolpment by consentrating one field and master it. That has resulted almoust suprisingly top of the notch SSMs compared to overal status of the fleet. One migth argue wheter that was good solution or not, but in the future, china has not afford to continue in this route..
but then there is the political burden of becoming a blue water navy whit power protection capapility. This needs essentially fleet whit standing capapility and make chinese naval presence of something else than joke or nostalgic memory lane feeling, like the recent sending of Jiangweis and Ludas to the disputed japanese oil fields. But most of all it needs carrier and fleet able to protect the carrier....and unfortuanetly this is out of reach of curent chinese fleet. But then again, carrier operations needs almoust decades of heritage of the operations whit aircraft in the sea...and China cannot waste anytime if it wants to field them in some time in the future. So making Varyag operational should be number one goal to PLAN. No matter wheter there would be nice looking CBG ready at the time of its service deput or not. As long as china can att least toy around whit some sort of carrier is irreplaceable for chinese. the CBG comes along when there is enough carriers to use them as strategical operational units, one wont sufficent.
116 in otherhand exist in only some very dubious pictures released in internet. (read= faked photoshop)
Anyway, as for the topic (wich is like volume 35 in sinodefence forum's 1.5 year existence) I would go on whit the lines of making "mass-producaple" products out of the most intresting desings, Yuan, 093 and 054. this would adequotely repair most inferiorityes of PLAN in manner that wouldnt be too complicate, but not yet too short sited solutions. In the past PLAN has managed to compensate its obsolence and lack of adequte technical know-how in naval devolpment by consentrating one field and master it. That has resulted almoust suprisingly top of the notch SSMs compared to overal status of the fleet. One migth argue wheter that was good solution or not, but in the future, china has not afford to continue in this route..
but then there is the political burden of becoming a blue water navy whit power protection capapility. This needs essentially fleet whit standing capapility and make chinese naval presence of something else than joke or nostalgic memory lane feeling, like the recent sending of Jiangweis and Ludas to the disputed japanese oil fields. But most of all it needs carrier and fleet able to protect the carrier....and unfortuanetly this is out of reach of curent chinese fleet. But then again, carrier operations needs almoust decades of heritage of the operations whit aircraft in the sea...and China cannot waste anytime if it wants to field them in some time in the future. So making Varyag operational should be number one goal to PLAN. No matter wheter there would be nice looking CBG ready at the time of its service deput or not. As long as china can att least toy around whit some sort of carrier is irreplaceable for chinese. the CBG comes along when there is enough carriers to use them as strategical operational units, one wont sufficent.
MIGleader
Banned Idiot
That is my idea, not istvans.
116 is not fake. Its real enough for Dongfeng to include it in his website. and it is VERY difficult to get dongfeng to add stuff to his webiste because he always searches for concrete proof before doing so. Perhaps he read something in a chiense article confirming 116. logically, why would the PLAN buy two rif-m's for just one ship?
I think a second ship WAS building, but it was scrapped before it was ever completed.
1. Dalian might not be advanced enough to handle the 52b/c desgin
2. rather than make a whole new design, the PLAN just gave it's next advanced desing to dalian to build.