Hong-Kong Protests

plawolf said:

To become a British or American citizen, you also need to pledge allegiance to the Queen/Republic.

If Beijing really wants to play hardball, after 47, they can inverse the special status of HK residents and make them second class citizens, much like how the British treated them. If they want to become full Chinese citizens, they need to swear allegiance to China, and their citizenship can be revoked if they subsequently go back on that pledge and/or commit serious crimes against Chinese interests.

Since these idiot rioters don’t want to be Chinese, they can choose not to be; but will have no freedom to travel to other parts of China, never mind abroad; will get zero public funding; will be ineligible for any government or public jobs...the list is endless.

There is no right for anyone to damage China’s interests on the one hand while expecting to make money off China on the other. If they cannot figure out which side their toast is buttered, they don’t deserve toast.

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Swearing allegiance is rather meaningless.

The real reason HK and Mainland has this ideological divide is because of online segregation. HKers consume Western ideology, either directly through Facebook and Twitter, or indirectly by consuming media that consumes Western ideology. The only way to bridge this divide is to subject HK telecoms to the same rules and regulations that Mainland telecoms are subjected to, and the only way to do that is to end 1C2S.

This is an ideological war, and those "wasted youths" are just physical manifestations of that war.

I think Deng Xiaoping made a mistake when he set the term of 1C2S to 50 years. He likely underestimated China's growth and thought it would take 50 years for China to reach a point where HK was no longer necessary. Had he set the term to 20 years, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

supercat said:

It turns out that the extradition bill is

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, not the central government's:

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Lam turned out to be a fool. She put too much trust in the benevolence of the West and did not realize her policies could be weaponized.

Now she's making excuses for not doing anything.

It was an excuse to declare independence. It doesn't matter if it was the extradition bill or not. That's what they're obviously doing is looking for an excuse to declare independence. Arab Spring playbook. These activists hate the Mainland Chinese so everyone should have gotten a hint that they spend every year on June 4th protesting for a people they hate in the first place. It's disingenuous. It was all about them looking for an excuse. It also doesn't matter what evidence you have claiming the protestors are violent. They're going to believe what fits their narrative. It's a lot less expensive than sending their armies or even their covert spies into China because it doesn't put themselves at risk.

solarz said:

Swearing allegiance is rather meaningless.

The real reason HK and Mainland has this ideological divide is because of online segregation. HKers consume Western ideology, either directly through Facebook and Twitter, or indirectly by consuming media that consumes Western ideology. The only way to bridge this divide is to subject HK telecoms to the same rules and regulations that Mainland telecoms are subjected to, and the only way to do that is to end 1C2S.

This is an ideological war, and those "wasted youths" are just physical manifestations of that war.

I think Deng Xiaoping made a mistake when he set the term of 1C2S to 50 years. He likely underestimated China's growth and thought it would take 50 years for China to reach a point where HK was no longer necessary. Had he set the term to 20 years, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

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Words have meaning and impact. If Joshua Wong was recorded swearing allegiance to Beijing, do you think he can still be the public front man puppet of the rioters?

As for 50 years, I don’t think that had anything to do with China’s development or the importance of HK, it was a grace period to allow the die hard China haters in HK to die themselves of natural causes.

What Deng did not anticipate was the determination and effective of western propaganda and psyche-ops programmes in poisoning the minds of the young and stupid.

Looking at HK now, it’s not the old die hards causing trouble. They know what it’s like to live as second class citizens in their own land under foreign oppression. Instead you have young spoilt idiot brats who never lived a day under British rule apparently longing to be slaves.

I agree HK’s access to poisoned western media needs to curbed, but there also needs a thorough house cleaning in HK itself of the traitors working in the local media; academia; and judicial at the minimum.

If these traitors actively works against China and HK’s interests, Beijing should retaliate with full prejudice and zero mercy.

China has been brought low far too many times throughout history by traitors from within. There needs to be zero tolerance policy towards such scum now and forever, to make sure that lesson from history is never forgotten or repeated again.

manqiangrexue said:

Then why does the youth in China love their country rather than riot as well?

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Because if the youth in Mainland China riots against the Party State, they would be "disappeared" into undisclosed jails, tortured, and given a permanent mark down on their social credit. They would then never be able to join the CCP or work for any government affiliated entities. They might even have problems borrowing money to start businesses or buy properties. In other words, if you dissent against the Party State, you can kiss good bye to a good life. Also, both Confucianism and CCP emphasize respect toward authority, while HKers were brought up under certain liberal norms, despite the fact that the Brits never gave them democracy.

solarz said:

Swearing allegiance is rather meaningless.

The real reason HK and Mainland has this ideological divide is because of online segregation. HKers consume Western ideology, either directly through Facebook and Twitter, or indirectly by consuming media that consumes Western ideology. The only way to bridge this divide is to subject HK telecoms to the same rules and regulations that Mainland telecoms are subjected to, and the only way to do that is to end 1C2S.

This is an ideological war, and those "wasted youths" are just physical manifestations of that war.

I think Deng Xiaoping made a mistake when he set the term of 1C2S to 50 years. He likely underestimated China's growth and thought it would take 50 years for China to reach a point where HK was no longer necessary. Had he set the term to 20 years, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

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Had Mao taken HK in 1949, we would not.be having this problem either. It so much easier to be wiser after the fact.

Josh Luo said:

Because if the youth in Mainland China riots against the Party State, they would be "disappeared" into undisclosed jails, tortured, and given a permanent mark down on their social credit. They would then never be able to join the CCP or work for any government affiliated entities. They might even have problems borrowing money to start businesses or buy properties. In other words, if you dissent against the Party State, you can kiss good bye to a good life. Also, both Confucianism and CCP emphasize respect toward authority, while HKers were brought up under certain liberal norms, despite the fact that the Brits never gave them democracy.

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And that's what should happen to people who fight against their own government for foreign interests but once again, you show your ignorance regarding China. There are heavy penalties in revolting against the government but if you actually go to China, you will see that even without these penalties, very very few people would even consider becoming anti-government, far less than in the US. (These penalties are instituted to give people what they deserve more than to deter offenders.) It is because you have bathed your brain in American propaganda that you think China is in a culture of fear where its citizens are too scared to speak up and break free. This is an American illusion that America loves because in this fantasy, America's opponent is a frail government and all America has to do to win is to make this government crumble under the weight of its citizens. Americans fear the truth that in actuality, 1.4 billion citizens love and bolster their own government and give it full strength and support to overtake the US as the world's most powerful nation. Americans know that there is nothing that they can do to stop this; it is an unwinnable battle so they hide behind their self-created illusion that they do not face 1.4 billion people. To acknowledge this truth is to acknowledge that America's future is number 2.

If you want to know the actual truth, I will tell you: the Chinese people love the Chinese government , more than ever and if you tried to start an anti-government protest in China, the citizens will beat you down before the police can save what's left of you. Try going to China and test it if you don't believe me.

Josh Luo said:

Because if the youth in Mainland China riots against the Party State, they would be "disappeared" into undisclosed jails, tortured, and given a permanent mark down on their social credit. They would then never be able to join the CCP or work for any government affiliated entities. They might even have problems borrowing money to start businesses or buy properties. In other words, if you dissent against the Party State, you can kiss good bye to a good life. Also, both Confucianism and CCP emphasize respect toward authority, while HKers were brought up under certain liberal norms, despite the fact that the Brits never gave them democracy.

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Ok I think it's pretty clear now this guy has no clue what he's talking about.

FYI Josh, China has an average of 100 protests A DAY, by people of all walks of life: farmers, veterans, retirees, factory workers, taxi drivers, etc. Mainland Chinese students don't protest because they're too goddamn busy studying!

This kind of crap might pass on reddit, but it's not gonna fly on SDF.

The fundamentalist cpc supporters in the posts above, asking for wiping out the civil society of hk, don't realise that this is the core difference between a Liberal and China mainland society. This is exactly what the hkers dont want in their country. Do governments in UK, France, USA or even India want thousands of protestor on their streets, disrupting traffic and being a nuisance? No. But that's the basis of a Liberal society.
Don't lose sight of what started this agitation. Hkers don't want to be tried in China with its opaque, executive controlled courts. Imagine a powerful corrupt communist party guy wants to target you for his personal gain and you have no recourse to the courts ? In contrast see the HSR between Mumbai and ahmedabad, land acquisition is still pending after 3 years as local poor villagers are not all convinced to sell their land. As a upper middle class Indian, I would love a nice shiny hsr in India but its not happening until the courts and landowners are in the same line.
Democracy is not convenient.

Josh Luo said:

Because if the youth in Mainland China riots against the Party State, they would be "disappeared" into undisclosed jails, tortured, and given a permanent mark down on their social credit. They would then never be able to join the CCP or work for any government affiliated entities. They might even have problems borrowing money to start businesses or buy properties. In other words, if you dissent against the Party State, you can kiss good bye to a good life. Also, both Confucianism and CCP emphasize respect toward authority, while HKers were brought up under certain liberal norms, despite the fact that the Brits never gave them democracy.

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When your rioters attack people for not agreeing with them, I see no difference from the very authority you don't like. That's not a sign of liberal values.