Hong-Kong Protests

Nutrient said:

No, you are wrong. The protests actually do happen in mainland China, and the government listens. Nearly all these protests are about local issues; Beijing almost never needs to act. They are handled locally.

For example, just this summer,

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

against the building of an incinerator for burning foreign trash. The local people disagreed with the government, and understandably so: why should they endure polluted air so foreigners can benefit? The protest made the local government cancel the incinerator and promise not to build it without the approval of the people.

Nearly all the protests in the mainland are like that: they are local rallies about local issues. Beijing may actually be quietly encouraging them, as they can counter some corrupt or overbearing officials.

As the Wuhan incident proves, Zhongnanhai is not as inflexible as you apparently think it should be. Usually it leads, but sometimes it follows. Beijing doesn't always have to do what the local people want. But it can, if it chooses to do so. It does not have to be as rigid as you.

Click to expand...

Are you joking? You're equating building an incinerator to anti-government riots?? That's like saying these parents let their kids choose any color candy they wanted so they'll probably let them pick their own bedtime and whether or not they need to study as well! Beijing never relents on actual core issues. Even in Wuhan, Beijing still did the leading! It said "We're gonna build an incinerator!" And the people totally opposed it and Beijing considered their opinions, and said, "OK, we can cancel it." The government still provided the leadership, both to launch the initiative and to cancel it. In Hong Kong, Beijing is doing (seemingly) nothing. In your story, that would equate to Beijing waiting for a mass pro-incinerator rally before meekly coming out to say they'll build it.

A government can be pliable to the requests of its people while still always leading and that is Zhongnanhai. You are confusing those 2.

Nutrient said:

Good, thanks. Rather late (just last month), but a good start. The pro-Beijing rallies need to grow much larger before the world will take them seriously.

Click to expand...

No no no, that's you moving the goal post now. I just showed you mass rallies with malls filled with people and you said now they need to be larger LOL How large? Get out of here. You didn't even know about these events; you came here arguing without keeping yourself up to date and now you want to change the goal post?

These aren't late; there were a few before them as well. But there are less and less because Beijing will not support them. They are disappointed; they're good people and good upstanding people who have jobs don't want to mix-up with violent unemployed armed thugs all day long! How hard is that to understand? You asked them to lead, which is an unreasonable request in the first place, they gave it to you, so now you say they didn't lead hard enough? Forget about it! If they have to lead harder than this, they can replace the central government.

Your version of how a government works is total cavemen democracy, or just anarchy. The government doesn't know shit on what to do and always waits for people, not even by voting, but by mass gathering, to express what they want. This is a joke conjured from your imagination. It exists nowhere in the modern world.

Nutrient said:

No, I understood what you were saying. You simply weren't making much sense.

Click to expand...

It doesn't make sense that the government needs to lead the people??!! This is some dirt bottom basic logic; I can't break this down further than that.

If I'm not making any sense, then how come my comments got way more likes than yours? If you're driving and suddenly all the other cars are approaching in the oncoming direction, check yourself, don't accuse everyone else of driving the wrong way.

I thought this quite funny, so I thought you guys might like it too.

HK democracy "demonstrators" mouthpiece and apologies, Anson Chan (who had supports from the likes of Jimmy Lai, and appeared in BBC recently justifying "demostrators" stance), was having lunch with friends at the exculsive jocky club in HK.

She probably could not have imagine a quite lunch in an exclusive place would ended up being anything but. When an old frail grey-haired lady saw her, and instantly tell her a piece of her mind regarding the problems she and her cohorts have caused in HK in the past few months.

This just to show, once again, the "democracy " movement is not as popular as the MSM would like us to believe!

dratsabknihcllik said:

Guys do you know about the grave situation in Chile?
In a few days there have been 8 deaths. It's pretty dangerous in Santiago now.
However, I request that you guys read articles by major Western news outlets. The current Chilean president was touted as a saviour and he was a neo-liberal hero.

Click to expand...

solarz said:

Sorry, what does this have to do with HK?

Click to expand...

@solarz I think @dratsabknihcllik is trying to point out how Western double standards and dirty tactics may be taking on a life of their own with potential blowback. I am not familiar enough with the situation in Chile to tell whether that is the case or whether it is more Western sponsored overseas chaos.

solarz said:

Macau is completely different. Macau doesn't serve as safe haven and base of operations for all kinds of anti-China elements, and part of the reason for that is it was simply overlooked in favor of HK.

The greatest flaw with 1C2S is that it allows the infestation of hostile propaganda with no way to oppose its spread. Those terrorists were not indoctrinated during the colonial era, they were indoctrinated after the return!

Click to expand...

There may be a lot of young people among the rioters and their conspirators but there are also a lot of older people actively rioting and conspiring who are at least two generations older. The anti-CCP/PRC foundation was laid during colonial era and has been active the entire time through today.

supersnoop said:

Don't remember if this is actually posted this or not.
I don't think this is flaw of 1C2S, I think this is flaw of HK itself. How did the education system get so bad?

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

How can a student not be expelled for this? They are saying they are supporting him? This is ridiculous, can you imagine as a parent, would you welcome someone like that in your kid's school?
Macau also has religious schools (one article I've seen said 80% of students attend them), but it seems like it is only in post-handover HK where such indoctrination occurs.

Some of the discussion a while back was how PRC is not able to handle non-state media to get control of the story. This is probably true of the education system too. This aspect of the government was weak in the early post-handover period, which is what we see now.

Click to expand...

solarz said:

That's the point: the flaw of the 1C2S is that it prevents the central government from taking action when a Chinese city is being morally corrupted and destroyed from within.

I believe DXP foresaw this possibility, and that is the purpose of the HK PLA garrison. Unfortunately, they are a measure of last resort, so we are seeing HK being destroyed piece-meal right now.

Click to expand...

De-colonization is an all-of-society effort. Civic de-colonization has to be dealt with through civic means, military force is merely a last resort backstop against severe law and order breakdown. The real problem is that HK lacks a true societal leadership class, which is to be expected in a colonized society, and the collective substitutes so far among the business elite, civil service, and local political classes have proven to be inadequate to the job of actually leading HK and adapting it to the changing world.

Jura said:

the article describes drawing parallel between HK protests, and London and Barcelona protests; perhaps the most interesting is the sentence "Last Friday the Spanish authorities shut down a popular protest website which called for the creation of a “second Hong Kong” in Catalonia."
China accuses West of double standard over Hong Kong protests after disorder in streets of Barcelona and London

• Foreign ministry says politicians and media that support violence will see their stance backfire
• Supporters of Catalan independence have copied tactics from Hong Kong protests and clashed with police after the jailing of separatist leaders

follow the link

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

if interested

Click to expand...

That article is a transparent attempt to pervert China's point, which is that Western politicians and media have turned a blind eye to or excused the disruptive and destructive behaviors by HK protesters while condemning them when perpetrated by protesters in Western countries. The same Western double standards have also been used by Western politicians and media to condemn the proportionate, even overly restrained, use of force by HK authorities while not condemning Western authorities using the same or harsher levels of force.

Jura said:

perhaps

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

is the most interesting inside
Hong Kong protests: is there a silent majority yearning to speak out but intimidated by violence?

• Constant demonstrations and anti-police graffiti have become pervasive in the city, drowning out criticism of the recent movement
• Residents writing to the Post say they feel silenced by the dominant pro-protest narrative

follow the link

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

if interested

Click to expand...

The single comment quoted in that article that comes closest to the truth is that the silent majority of HK-ers probably see that the rioters and their conspirators/supporters are merely destructive and obstructionist, while the government's performance is subpar all around and not serving the interests of all HK-ers, so there is really no one for the silent majority to root for. It is important to note that the prevailing attitude of HK society has been very cynical for many decades, unsurprising for a society comprised mostly of refugees and second class colonial subjects in their own land, that cynicism lends itself to the person being a silent bystander in political matters and is part of the "slave" mentality that de-colonization has to tackle.

Jura said:

strange coincidence if you ask me
Hong Kong ethnic minority groups safe from reprisal attacks – but police ‘accidentally’ spray blue dye from water cannon on front of Kowloon Mosque

• Fears had spread of possible revenge after a protest activist was attacked for a second time by men said to be of South Asian descent
• In the end, Sunday marred by police water cannon shooting blue dye on the gates and steps of Kowloon Mosque

follow the link

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

if interested

Click to expand...

More rioter propaganda parroted by @Jura with a zero insight non sequitur. Let me offer some facts:
The mosque is located immediately next to an entrance to a subway station that has been vandalized by rioters before along a major road targeted by rioters multiple times.
This happened well into the day after rioters have set roadblocks and fires along said road and in the neighborhood where the mosque is.
This happened also well after the police had issued multiple dispersal warnings to all persons and well into the process of dispersing rioters along said road.
There were several people dressed in black gathered in front/outside of the mosque property in close proximity to the mosque fence and front gate as well as people dressed like journalists, on other occasions some of whom turn out to be imposters and some of whom have deliberately got in the way of police so as to assist rioters.
The police water cannon had ample reason and right to disperse this group and clearly accidentally sprayed part of the fence, front gate, and steps leading to the mosque in the immediate vicinity while doing so.
The police commissioner and a delegation of police visited the mosque and met with and apologized to their imam and also helped clean the area hit by the water cannon. Local news report about it in Cantonese:

The ‘accidentally’ is malicious if you ask me.

NOBEL PRIZE NOMINATION FOR HK PROTESTS!!
Its a wonderful world, don't you think.
This is some next level stuff.