Hong-Kong Protests

Xizor

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
Brumby said:
You guys are just making up a narrative to suit your agenda. Yue Fei was betrayed - period, not by some western government but by his own compatriots. Where was the conscience of 盡忠報國 with those chinese court officials who betrayed him? The notion of freedom is not a western concept but a value treasured by every human being regardless of ethnicity.
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Notion of freedom shall not supersede the notion of Patriotism and love for the motherland. Responsibility goes hand in hand with Freedom. A responsibility towards History, Geopolitics, aspirations of the people - present and the future.
If Freedom,Democracy,Human Rights etc are pushed in "bad faith" by foreign establishments and IF pursuing these supposedly noble ideals cause great disruption and harm to the Nation and the aspirations of the people THEN these noble values must be shelved for later or stricken down promptly.
That is exactly why Mao Ze Dong - who is often credited for the blunders of the Cultural Revolution - adorns the Gate of Heavenly Peace as a huge portrait. He unified the country, roped in various provinces using overwhelming force of the military and directed wars of Geopolitical significance. He is called the father of China for a reason. If prosperity was the only measuring tape to be used then Deng Xiaoping would have adorned it.
If Freedom and Democracy is to be pursued then Tibet, Xinjiang and other provinces all would break away ( since they'd want a free country too). Infighting between various ethnicity would take place, Nativity movement shall take force and Balkanization of China would happen.

Freedom is NOT a western concept neither is Human Rights. But both these shall not prevail over the aspirations of a nation and people seeking glory,prominence on the world stage.

How about a Free and Democratic China, Unified and united from Xinjiang to the Taiwan, the most populous and the most powerful nation on the planet ; with overwhelming powers in Military, Commerce and Technology ? Sounds Interesting ? I'd support that. But hey, some people want China to crash and burn. Some ideas, even if very noble, are pushed in bad faith. Some ideas need not be pursued. Some fruits are deemed forbidden.
 
Brumby

Brumby

Major
Xsizor said:
Notion of freedom shall not supersede the notion of Patriotism and love for the motherland. Responsibility goes hand in hand with Freedom. A responsibility towards History, Geopolitics, aspirations of the people - present and the future.
If Freedom,Democracy,Human Rights etc are pushed in "bad faith" by foreign establishments and IF pursuing these supposedly noble ideals cause great disruption and harm to the Nation and the aspirations of the people THEN these noble values must be shelved for later or stricken down promptly.
That is exactly why Mao Ze Dong - who is often credited for the blunders of the Cultural Revolution - adorns the Gate of Heavenly Peace as a huge portrait. He unified the country, roped in various provinces using overwhelming force of the military and directed wars of Geopolitical significance. He is called the father of China for a reason. If prosperity was the only measuring tape to be used then Deng Xiaoping would have adorned it.
If Freedom and Democracy is to be pursued then Tibet, Xinjiang and other provinces all would break away ( since they'd want a free country too). Infighting between various ethnicity would take place, Nativity movement shall take force and Balkanization of China would happen.

Freedom is NOT a western concept neither is Human Rights. But both these shall not prevail over the aspirations of a nation and people seeking glory,prominence on the world stage.

How about a Free and Democratic China, Unified and united from Xinjiang to the Taiwan, the most populous and the most powerful nation on the planet ; with overwhelming powers in Military, Commerce and Technology ? Sounds Interesting ? I'd support that. But hey, some people want China to crash and burn. Some ideas, even if very noble, are pushed in bad faith. Some ideas need not be pursued. Some fruits are deemed forbidden.
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Well you need to remind the CCP as to their priority since the pledge of loyalty is first to the Party and then only to the country.
 
Xizor

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
Brumby said:
Well you need to remind the CCP as to their priority since the pledge of loyalty is first to the Party and then only to the country.
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A very proper priority. It is the CCP which (largely) unified China. Define China without the CCP and you'll have to leave Tibet and Xinjiang and even Mongolian Autonomous region out of it. The party designed and defines the constitution that shall prevail over the entirety of territory under its direct control. Any other questions ?
 
Gatekeeper

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
Brumby said:
You guys are just making up a narrative to suit your agenda. Yue Fei was betrayed - period, not by some western government but by his own compatriots. Where was the conscience of 盡忠報國 with those chinese court officials who betrayed him? The notion of freedom is not a western concept but a value treasured by every human being regardless of ethnicity.
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Ummm! Freedom that's valued! Now let's see.

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Australian MP march in support of "valued" freedom with Hong Kong. Well fair enough at face value!

BUT this guy, Tim Wilson has previously said that demostrators exercising their "valued" fteedom of expression is a WASTE OF TIME! And furthermore, authority should use water cannon on these "valued" freedom demostrators!

I hope this OZ politicians is not a representative sample of western "value and treasured"!

If this value are so treasured, then where is the condemnation from OZ or any western nations of the 18 people KILLED by authority in demonstration in Iraq? And this happened in the very same week as HK policeman firing two seperate shots, and is reported and condemned widely by OZ and other western nation.

The hypocrisy is too much, particularly coming from someone who is so strong on law and order!
 
S

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
Brumby said:
You guys are just making up a narrative to suit your agenda. Yue Fei was betrayed - period, not by some western government but by his own compatriots. Where was the conscience of 盡忠報國 with those chinese court officials who betrayed him? The notion of freedom is not a western concept but a value treasured by every human being regardless of ethnicity.
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Xsizor had a great reply, so I won't repeat what he said. I will add this though. As I have posted before, loyalty to the country is not loyalty to CCP (you can search my post history). However, what these people are doing in HK are wrong. Period.

1. This is not a made up narrative. It is my OPINION, which I made very clear. I offered it up to see what others' thoughts on the matter was. Made up narrative is like Legco member Jeremy Tam saying people died at Prince Edward station.

2. The whole point of the Yue Fei story is his loyalty was so strong, he went back to face the court even though he knew it was certain betrayal. Similar to Stilicho, opposite of Benedict Arnold who put his personal ambition above that of the then-nascent United States.

Freedom is not a western value, but I put it in quotation marks to specifically reference the HK rioters. To support them at this point is actually the opposite of supporting freedom (The bad faith Xsizor mentioned). They are destroying the public property, impeding the freedom of movement, assaulting people who disagree with them with a Jacobinesque zeal that would make Robespierre proud.
 
Gatekeeper

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
KIENCHIN said:
Yes kudos to the Aussie journo who came to the rescue but unfortunately his masters back home here in Oz chose not to show the bare truth about what is really going on. It was on the one of network news this morning about the rioting yesterday in HK and in the end chose to interview a very fluent English speaking blackshirt who spoke with not a hint of Hong Kong accent about the brutal beating from “they” who can never stop this fight for their rights.
I switch to another channel from then on, there won’t be any even handed reporting from any of these white fellas.
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Yes, what I noticed at these types of "indepth journalism" is just how shallow and bias it is!

For example, they NEVER ever have a counter with opposing views! They always interview people with one views only, and then tries to project this as the majority views of HK.

In addition, they always called people against demostrators as pro-Beijing! When in fact, they are pro-HK, Pro- status quo, Pro-one country two system. As you can see calling these people pro-HK doesn't suit their narratives. It is probably fair to call these people pro-law and order! Pro-peace, etc.

And noticed the rioters get wonderful names, pro-democracy, pro-freedom, pro-independence. And this one takes the biscuits "Pro-HK".

If these MSM call these rioters out for what they are! Like, pro-violence, pro-anachists, pro-washington pro-lawless and disorder! You get the picture.

Then you won't get people like our Mr Pony, and the Rocket's GM coming out and say stupid things which he now regrets!
 
P

PanAsian

Major
manqiangrexue said:
I'm really shocked at why so many Western companies seem to be unable to come up with a coherent strategy and stick with it rather than doing things and cancelling them out with opposite things. It's like the companies just can't get everyone on the same page. Apple just formed some partnerships with Chinese suppliers for its parts including the new screens in an effort to get back into the Chinese market and to be seen as a Chinese partner rather than a rival. Now it does this to create hostility against the Chinese market. When this news spreads, Apple will tank further in China. Houston Rockets manager gets political for no effing reason at all, supporting the HK riots on social media to earn his company an immediate ban from the CBA with a nosediving drop in Chinese sponsorship before several team members go online to proclaim their love for China and the manager goes on to issue an apology saying he now knows better. Why?? Did he not foresee what would happen as soon as he wrote that he supported the riots? Why put the team through all this?
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The companies are definitely strategizing, however that is independent of these individuals making comments or doing other things that are pro-rioter/anti-authorities/anti-China. Also remember that these individuals are likely exposed only to pro-rioter/anti-authorities/anti-China misinformation about HK. Retaliation against the companies can only go so far but are golden opportunities to open more people's eyes as to what is actually happening.
 
Gatekeeper

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
B.I.B. said:
I saw that on the television where it was reported that a Beijing supporter delibrately ran his taxi into a crowd of democracy demostraters.
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Yes, that's the one. My immediate thoughts was, how does he/she knows?The bloke was beaten shitless unable to tell anyone his thoughts! Talk about manipulating the news agenda to suit your narratives! Gee.
 
vincent

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Brumby said:
You guys are just making up a narrative to suit your agenda. Yue Fei was betrayed - period, not by some western government but by his own compatriots. Where was the conscience of 盡忠報國 with those chinese court officials who betrayed him? The notion of freedom is not a western concept but a value treasured by every human being regardless of ethnicity.
Click to expand...

Yue Fei's fate doesn't not negate the need to be loyal to the country.

There is no absolute freedom, even in 'Merica. Individual freedoms are balanced against the need to accommodate other members of the society (can't have people driving in the opposite direction on the highways or smoking indoors). Every society, even between different American states, have different limits on individual freedoms. Saying freedom is treasured by every human being is an empty slogan with absolutely no meaning. There are far more nuance to the amount of freedom SHOULD be allowed in every society.
 
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